Andy and Reyna
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When Jesus saw his ministry drawing huge crowds, he climbed a hillside. Those who were apprenticed to him, the committed, climbed with him. Arriving at a quiet place, he sat down and taught his climbing companions. This is what he said:
"You're blessed when you're at the end of your rope. With less of you there is more of God and his rule.
"You're blessed when you feel you've lost what is most dear to you. Only then can you be embraced by the One most dear to you.
"You're blessed when you're content with just who you are—no more, no less. That's the moment you find yourselves proud owners of everything that can't be bought.
"You're blessed when you've worked up a good appetite for God. He's food and drink in the best meal you'll ever eat.
"You're blessed when you care. At the moment of being 'care-full,' you find yourselves cared for.
"You're blessed when you get your inside world—your mind and heart—put right. Then you can see God in the outside world.
"You're blessed when you can show people how to cooperate instead of compete or fight. That's when you discover who you really are, and your place in God's family.
"You're blessed when your commitment to God provokes persecution. The persecution drives you even deeper into God's kingdom.
"Not only that—count yourselves blessed every time people put you down or throw you out or speak lies about you to discredit me. What it means is that the truth is too close for comfort and they are uncomfortable. You can be glad when that happens—give a cheer, even!—for though they don't like it, I do! And all heaven applauds. And know that you are in good company. My prophets and witnesses have always gotten into this kind of trouble."
Matthew 5: 1-12
38 comments:
Dan, where did you get this horrible paraphrase.
And along those lines, where do you suppose Jesus made is big mistakes in giving the Sermon on the Mount? His actual words aren't good enough? They have to be loosely paraphrased far beyond the actual text of his sermon?
Do you think Jesus is now saying, "Thanks, Dan, for correcting my sermon, man, that was really a turkey and I'm glad you've improved it for me."
His actual words aren't good enough? I don't know, E, I don't speak Greek. I find the various translations and paraphrases interesting.
As to the Message, I believe it to be an actual translation and not a paraphrase. Here's some info on it:
http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/?
action=getVersionInfo&vid=65
At that site, they say:
[In an attempt to make the Bible more real, translator Eugene Peterson] "began to bring into English the rhythms and idioms of the original ancient Greek—writing straight out of the Greek text without looking at other English translations."
Not being a Greek speaker, I can't attest to how well Peterson did. I assume you don't care for it and are learned enough in the Greek (or Aramaic, or whatever) to speak knowledgeably on the subject?
Michael, are you out there and able to offer an opinion?
His *actual words?*
I think the Message is a paraphrase, but a much better one than some. I do think "You're blessed," is not a great translation of makarios. The Good News' "How happy are those who" does a better job of conveying the Greek there, but the Message does do a good job with the rhythym/ It's always a trade-off: Versions which capture the poetry and rhythym are likely to be less literal while those striving for word-for-word translation will be stilted in form on the whole.
The King James Version did an excellent job (not everywhere but with the SoM) in combining the two concerns, but some of its language is now obscure, like "Blessed" for makarios.
Other than reprint the Greek text, though, Dan, any version you choose will have its critics.
Dan:"I assume you don't care for it and are learned enough in the Greek (or Aramaic, or whatever) to speak knowledgeably on the subject?"
It'd be Greek in this case and although I'm knowledgeable enough on the subject to speak about it (I can read Greek, that is), these paraphrases are so far afield from actual translations that even those completely Greek-less should have occasion to raise and eyebrow.
ER:"His *actual words?*"
As close as we are going to come to it. What I mean of course is His words as they were recorded. It is speculated that he spoke Aramaic (and it is almost certainly so that any 1st century messiah [and there were many] would have spoken it). But the NT also records Jesus' puns that only make sense in Greek. Greek was the common language of the day and one would expect almost everyone to have some knowledge of it.
So what we have are the Greek rendering of His actual words and as close as we can come to the English meaning.
Michael is, of course, perfectly correct that blessed does not convey the more natural meaning of makarios. Happy comes a lot closer. In defense of KJV, happy didn't mean the same thing in the early 1600's as it means today, then it was closer akin to lucky being the same root word as happen and happenstance.
Dan:"As to the Message, I believe it to be an actual translation and not a paraphrase."
Sorry, but not even close.
Here's the "original" and a parsing"
Verse 3
Makarioi hoi ptochoi to pneumati
hoti auton estin he basileia ton ouranon.
makarioi = happy
hoi = the
ptochoi = poor
to = [the] dative in locative sense
pneumati = spirit
hoti = for, because
auton = theirs
estin = is
he = the
basileia = kingdom
ton = [the] genative hence 'of'
ouranon = heavens
absolutely literal translation:
Happy the poor in the spirit
For theirs is the kingdom of the heavens.
King James translation:
Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Here's the paraphrase:
You're blessed when you're at the end of your rope. With less of you there is more of God and his rule.
Nothing about a rope in the "original", nothing about more of God, nothing about less of you. In fact, no 'you' at all.
As you can see the paraphrase version cannot excuse itself because the Greek is obscure and stilted and the paraphrase is just as close a translation as the, for example, the KJV. If there is a natural translation into English, as there is in this case and just about every case in the NT, there is no excuse for wantonly mangling text. Geesh, I can't believe that I have more respect for this than you believers.
I submit to you that the KJV is careful attempt at a translation, while the paraphrase you quote is off the cuff gobbledy-gook. Anyone who thinks this is "bring(ing) into English the rhythms and idioms of the original ancient Greek" has had too much ouzo or is smoking some really old papyri.
Michael:"Other than reprint the Greek text, though, Dan, any version you choose will have its critics."
Well, as I'm sure you're aware, even the ancient Greek versions have their critics.
If I might ask:
What in the world does it mean to be "poor in (the) spirit"?
How do we know what is true and what isn't? Well, for starters we take it at face value and try it. So, if 'The Message' is not true, then the paraphrase would not be true. How are these paraphrased translations of the Greek in and of themselves not true? I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: Only those that have taken God at His word by faith (faith is experiential and not speculative) are qualified to talk about the faithfulness of God and His word. Eleutheros, have you done that?
Put it to the test. Here's a passage of scripture from Romans Chapter 10 from The Message that cuts to the heart of the matter: Salvation.
The word that saves is right here,
as near as the tongue in your mouth,
as close as the heart in your chest.
It's the word of faith that welcomes God to go to work and set things right for us. This is the core of our preaching. Say the welcoming word to God—"Jesus is my Master"—embracing, body and soul, God's work of doing in us what he did in raising Jesus from the dead. That's it. You're not "doing" anything; you're simply calling out to God, trusting him to do it for you. That's salvation. With your whole being you embrace God setting things right, and then you say it, right out loud: "God has set everything right between him and me!"
Scripture reassures us, "No one who trusts God like this—heart and soul—will ever regret it." It's exactly the same no matter what a person's religious background may be: the same God for all of us, acting the same incredibly generous way to everyone who calls out for help. "Everyone who calls, 'Help, God!' gets help."
Roger:"Only those that have taken God at His word by faith (faith is experiential and not speculative) are qualified to talk about the faithfulness of God and His word. Eleutheros, have you done that?"
Sorry, Roger, but I've come to call that the Moron's Propostion. Essentially, if you believe this you will find that it is true. What a crock! That would apply to anyone's nutcase religion or philosophy.
Ever been visited by the Mormons and heard their spiel? It ends in, yes, you guessed it, if you only accept Mormonism in faith, you will see that it is true. Muslims do the same thing.
Every weak-faithed nutcase that has ever lived uses that argument.
If that's the best you have to offer, it's pretty poor stuff.
>Ever been visited by the Mormons and heard their spiel?
Yes, and if you ask them if they know they are saved, they'll not be able to answer that with 100% certainty. Are you 100% sure of where you'll go after you die?
>"Only those that have taken God at His word by faith (faith is experiential and not speculative) are qualified to talk about the faithfulness of God and His word. Eleutheros, have you done that?"
Have you taken God at His word? How do you KNOW it's not true if you have not?
Roger:"Are you 100% sure of where you'll go after you die?"
As I've patiently tried to explain before, God has shown me that He (jolly Joker that He is) has played three uproarious practical jokes on us. The three jokes are:
Time
Space
Self
None of these exist, they are only clever illusions. God gets a chuckle every time we fall for them. It's good natured ribbing on His part, so don't take offense at Him for it.
Now let's look at your question:
where you'll go after you die
Since time is an illusion, there is no such thing as 'after'.
Since space is an illusion, there is no such thing as 'where'.
since self is an illusion, there is no such thing as 'you'.
To those who have really been talking to God, your question is as profound as saying "Do narf know gorb they will znibits snazz they distim?" That is, utterly meaningless.
"Have you taken God at His word? How do you KNOW it's not true if you have not?"
Because God told me it isn't. He said He wasn't entirely serious when He had it written. Actually He said something closer to not being in a legal state of mind, but He warned me that you probably couldn't handle that so I won't mention it.
catastrophile said...>If I might ask:
What in the world does it mean to be "poor in (the) spirit"?
---------
Good question. If someone says we're 'poor in money' - that means we don't have much money. So, the phrase 'poor in spirit' means that we are needy spiritually. That's a reality for all of us, yet only some realize it - that they don't have what they need and can't fix that because of our sin. Jesus is saying that there are blessings in realizing that.
Here's a quote I recently read regarding that verse:
"In the midst of it all, you must come to the place in your life where you are poor in spirit, and where you know with your mind and heart that you are in need of God. You need His salvation, but more importantly, you need Him. When you have Him, you'll have the salvation He offers. In other words, yours "is the kingdom of heaven."
Here's a quote from Shaun Groves, a singer/songwriter who wrote a recent album based on the Beatitudes.
What’s Wrong With This World - MATTHEW 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Jesus addressed the massive gathering of spectators scattered on the hillside. “Blessed are the poor in spirit,” he announced. How strange. How seeker insensitive of Him. This is His first opportunity after all to make a good impression on such an enormous crowd of potential converts, a multitude of spiritual seekers. This is their first, and for some their last, taste of what the Messiah is like and what it will mean to follow Him. Why start like this, with poverty? He might as well have said, “You’re a loser. There’s nothing good in you and you have nothing of value to offer me or anyone else. You’re worthless inside.” And well, that’s what He meant. The first step in being a disciple of Christ, the thing we must know first is not, “God loves you and has a plan for your life,” as I was always taught. That’s true, but apparently, according to Jesus, what God wants us to know first is that we are nothing without Him. There is nothing good in us, any of us. I watched Billy Graham on Larry King Live shortly after teen gunmen had slaughtered their classmates and injured many more. Larry was racked by the same question that kept so many millions up at night, “Why did this happen?” And as Reverend Graham paused to collect his answer, I raised my hand at home. I just knew it was Marilyn Manson, video game violence, MTV, absent fathers, etc. That was the list evangelical America had raised me to recite. The problem, it had been taught to me, was always out there in the world, in need of legislation or a good boycott. And Billy Graham, much wiser than I, looked Larry in the face and explained, “Thousands of years ago, a young couple in love lived in a garden called Eden, and God placed a tree in the Garden and told them not to eat from the tree….” As it turns out, the world is not what’s wrong with me. I’m what’s wrong with the world. As Calvin wrote, “He only who is reduced to nothing in himself, and relies on the mercy of God, is poor in spirit.” So I pray to God with him… “Nothing in my hand I bring/Simply to thy cross I cling/Naked, come to thee for dress/Helpless, look to thee for grace/Foul, I to the fountain fly/Wash me, Saviour, or I die.”
Thanks everyone for the interesting comments and questions. A couple of thoughts:
Sorry, Eleutheros, that you don't like the paraphrase. Your point is taken, it's not a literal translation. Feel free to look it up in another version, feel free to talk about and quote another version.
Along those lines, and on the topic of "poor in spirit," allow me to throw in the kink Luke's version of the Sermon on the Plain (as it is called there):
Blessed are you who are poor, for the kingdom of God is yours.
Blessed are you who are now hungry, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who are now weeping, for you will laugh. ~Luke 6:20-21
Hmm...Not "Poor in spirit," but just plain Poor. Hungry.
What are we to make of that?
Allow me to offer my initial take on these few verses: It strikes me right away as this is spake by One who is concerned about our daily lives - especially and specifically about the poor. (Which is not to say that "God hates the Rich", as I often get accused of saying - just that there is ample biblical evidence for a God who has a special concern for the poor and a desire for abundant living with Enough.)
I especially like, in this paraphrase, the line: "You're blessed when you're content with just who you are—no more, no less. That's the moment you find yourselves proud owners of everything that can't be bought."
These words seem to me to be spake by One who is concerned about economic and healthy living issues, a theme that I think we'll see continue throughout the Sermon.
Dude, 'is spake' is poor grammar at best... Please, go get a copy of The Trivium.
"Spake" is past tense, and archaic. If you're quoting an old text, like the KJV or Pilgrims Progress, archaic words are to be expected, but even in those works such words will be used properly.
Even putting 'to be' in front of 'spake' is simply wrong!
You want to discuss the merits of your particular choice of 'paraphrase' for this look into the Sermon on the Mount, and you consciously mangle English? You want to question the Greek translation of tSotM and you consciously mangle English?
Come on!
Lighten up, Elash,
In Elizabethian English, as is true in most other Germanic languages, a transitive verb takes 'have' to form the perfect but an verb that can only be intransitive takes 'be' in the perfect.
It was:
I have seen (because 'see' can take a direct object).
but
I am gone (because 'go' cannot take a direct object).
That is why in the Christmas carol it is, "Joy to the world, the Lord is come ..." not "Joy to the world, the Lord has come."
Take a deep breath here because I have more.....
English also has the characteristic of 'fronting' the vowel to change a verb from transitive to intransitive. We have 'lie' (intransitive) and 'lay' (transitive)' and thus
fall - fell
rise - raise
sit - set
Notice in the case of of 'fall' and 'lie', the present of the intransitive (fell, lay) is the past tense of the transitive.
This could be done with most verbs in the very old use of English, so 'spake' could be used as a present intransitive from of 'speak'.
Whether by accident of design (or just joking, which is the more likely), Dan isn't that far wrong.
Mama ER will have heart surgery from 12:30 p.m. to around 4:30 p.m. Friday. Going to be with her in the morning, then I'm going to work for a couple of hours rather than just sit around and worry, then I'll go back to the hospital.
(Exact times provided for those to whom "intercessory prayer" means something. As usual, rosaries, good karma, soft-and-squishy high-church prayers, holy-rolling pew-jumping praying in tongues, neo-hippy vibes and happy-happy thoughts cheerfully accepted.)
Thanks, Eleutheros and, yes, just writing silly. Not intending to make a stir by my words writ.
ER, you're mom's in our prayers and thoughts.
Elashley, aside from grammatical jokes, thoughts on the Beatitudes?
The Beatitudes? What beautiful promises from our Lord! Promises of fullness, comfort, reward, judgment and restitution! As for the paraphrase, it robs the Beatitudes of their profundity... and beauty.
Well, with a total of two complaints about my chosen version, I'll switch over to either King James or NASV.
I'm nothing if not accomodating.
That, plus I have no ties to The Message, just offering something different. But I don't want to spend all our time looking at this beautiful, important passage discussing the merits of the translation.
I researched some references to the poor in scripture and thought I'd share:
God is concerned:
Ps 9:18, 12:5
Proverbs chapter 13
Concern by the prophets over the wrong treatment of:
Is 1:23, 10:1-2
Ezek chapter 34
Amos 2:6, 8:6
Mic 2:1-2
Hab 3:14
Mal 3:5
Jesus references Isaiah 61:1-2
"preach gospel to the poor"
James 1:9-11, 2:1-13, 5:1-6
There are many more, but these were just a few I found in some Bible study guides.
By the way, I've gotten some mail recently about this organization that works to meet the needs of the poor in our own backyard:
Christian Appalachian Project
www.chrisapp.org
Mission statement:
"CAP's mission is to help people to help themselves - through education, opportunity, employment, and a sense of Christan community."
Some facts:
The Appalachian region extends more than 1000 miles from southern New York to northeast Mississippi, and is home to nearly 23 million people, many of whom are desperate for our help. In fact, of the 410 counties in Appalachia, many are considered to be 'distressed', a designation based on low per capita income and high rates of poverty and unemployment.
This should be good....
Roger:"In fact, of the 410 counties in Appalachia, many are considered to be 'distressed', a designation based on low per capita income and high rates of poverty and unemployment."
Roger, keep your *#^@& carpetbagging yankees outa here!
Serious as a heart attack, son, organizations like that are pure evil.
Notice that the sole criteria for being in poverty is low income and high unemployment. Well, technically I'm unemployed and several degrees below the minimum poverty level. I AM one of the statistics you are quoting.
Appalachian people are self-reliant and have a strong and thriving under the table economy going which is not always based on cash and even less often reported as income. So morons look ONLY at official income and official empolyment status and say, "Oh, geeze, those people are destitute and we ought to go save them."
You should be so lucky as to aspire to live like I and my neighbors do.
In the mean time, stay the Hell out.
eleutheros, I doubt that everyone in the area is as well equipped as you. You have quite a lot of education and have worked in the past, from things I have read that you posted. I don't think you should try to speak for everyone, just because you are pretty self sufficient. I am no fan of welfare, but the organizations that I get mailings from are not government agencies and it appears that Christians are blasted if they help and blasted if they don't.
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Moma2:"Christians are blasted if they help and blasted if they don't."
That's right. And the reason why should be very instructive if only, as Jesus said more than once, "he who hath an ear to hear, let him hear."
The resason Christians are blasted if they do or if they don't might be for one of two things:
1) The Devil is really focusing on them because they are God's people and he (the Devil) is really trying to get them.
2) The Christians are on such a wrong tack that they deserve to be blasted.
Dogmatism and religio-centricity prevents Christians from seriously examining the second, so it has to be the first, yeah, that's the ticket.
And speaking of having an ear to hear, read again what I actually said. Degree of education and amount of employment has nothing to do with it. The very problem is the culutral bigotry that views the other man's culture as inferior if it manages without the Babylonian trapings you are used to.
Although I AM one of those people, although I live among and interact with those very people without the fromal jobs and formal educations, it still might be so that I don't speak for everyone.
But in this, you, on the other hand, speak for no one.
The very problem is the culutral bigotry that views the other man's culture as inferior if it manages without the Babylonian trapings you are used to.>
I have no problem with you living the way you want to, but do you suggest then that everyone go back to that period? I guess I don't share your confidence that it would work, but as a Bible believer I also think that God has a plan and it will come to pass in His time. Thank you for your blessing.
Moma2:"I have no problem with you living the way you want to, but do you suggest then that everyone go back to that period?"
I am suggesting that is someone is content with the modern Babylonian life, if they are content to have contries invaded and civilians killed to secure oil, people sweat away their lives in dire poverty to make our trinkets, topsoil eroded away to grow the food that makes us fat ... if a person is content will all that, then by all means continue doing what you are doing (or not doing what you are not doing) and living as you are living.
But if you want your own lot and the prospects for the rest of the world to improve, then you must do something different than you are doing now.
Making Borg-like consumerist clones of every corner of the world from Appalachia to the sub-Sahara to Guatemala is doing no one any favors and based on cultural bigotry.
eleutheros, I think that if everyone goes out and secures a plot of land and tries to sustain himself in the way that you do, you will have neighbors closer than you want them. There is not enough producing land for every individual or family to own the land to live independently. One farmer can produce enough for several people, but everyone cannot go buy land; look at the building projects in the city and how many people live in one of them alone. God gave the wisdom that has allowed the progress, and I thank Him for the freedom we have to make our choices. I'm happy that you are happy with your choice.
Moma2:"One farmer can produce enough for several people, but everyone cannot go buy land; look at the building projects in the city and how many people live in one of them alone."
Yes, one farmer can produce the food for a very great number of people, but that's because the food is produced from fossil fuel. Once the fossil fuel becomes scarce, and we are on the cusp of that happening at this very moment, food becomes scarce and those people crowded in those inner city areas starve.
Moma2:"God gave the wisdom that has allowed the progress"
Then God is an Idiot. Or else we're just seeing yet another God Handpuppet telling you that we have this overpopulated, toxic modern world because of God given cleverness. We have the present "progress" ONLY because of 100 years of intense fossil fuel use, not because of a Gift from God.
Mom2, think of it this way: Suppose there our cleverness IS sufficient to supply the needs of all 7 billion of us. Will our cleverness be sufficient for 14 billion? Will the oil continue for another 25 years? Another 100 years?
Or would it be a presumption upon and violation of our God-given cleverness to assume that this Creation is infinite and can handle infinite demands upon and raping of it?
Dan, I think God is in control. Jesus will return. Who knows how long before that happens? I don't see everyone going off to the hills, doing without electricity, automobiles, hospitals, doctors (or many of them their entertainment), so I think we should get our personal spiritual houses in order and trust God. No political party is going to bring about Utopia, but some polital ideas may bring judgement.
(political ideas)
If no political ideas are going to save things (and they're not), why don't we surrender on the war on drugs? Why outlaw rape or murder?
We have some political rules to try to discourage people from hurting other people.
But more than political ideas, I'm talking about personal responsibility. Put in Christian terms, I'm talking about God's Kingdom come on earth, as it is in heaven. Not utopia (literally, "no place"), but imperfect people living relatively within their means.
In fact, I'd suggest we will find a lot of that sort of thinking here in the Sermon on the Mount. Watch for it.
"I think we should get our personal spiritual houses in order and trust God."
Put another way, would we encourage our friends who find themselves on gov't assistance to "get their spiritual house in order and trust God" to take care of their financial needs, while they keep on relying upon The Dole?
OR would we encourage them to get their spiritual house in order and trust God to help them live responsibly and within their means?
OR would we encourage them to get their spiritual house in order and trust God to help them live responsibly and within their means?>
That would help and first off, get a job and work. 2 Thess.3:10 But what I am referring to is the thinking that we are going to go backwards in time in such volume that man can turn things around. Our culture needs change from the heart and that is where a right relationship with Jesus Christ comes in.
The political ideas that will bring judgement are legalizing abortion and same sex marriage, in my opinion, just to name two.
But living in such a way as to destroy God's creation won't bring judgement?
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.
~Revelation 11:18
"what I am referring to is the thinking that we are going to go backwards in time in such volume that man can turn things around."
I think what Eleutheros is getting at and with which I agree is that we ARE going to go "backwards in time," whether we want to think about it or not. We're saying that,
1. We can feed 7 billion people because and ONLY because we use a great deal of petroleum in our agricultural process,
2. When that petroleum dries up in the coming century (likely sooner rather than later), we will be able to feed far fewer than 7 billion
3. It is personally, societally and morally irresponsible to live in such a way.
Dan, you are just going to have to peach on. I know what comes next, having read the Book rather than see the movie by Evangelical Productions Inc.
Dan:"We can feed 7 billion people because and ONLY because we use a great deal of petroleum in our agricultural process"
And if it is the intellectual ability that God has given us that allowed us to overpoplulate, pollute, and misuse the Earth, then I submit that we have been blasphemously abusing that ability and should expect nothing but a Divine reckoning for it.
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