As I've had several discussion this last year on Jesus as he relates to US policies - many of these discussions having been with conservative religious folk - the question has crossed my mind:
Are there any policies that the Christian Right advocate for that have a basis in Jesus' actual teachings?
I know that this sounds like a provocative question and it's only partially meant to be. Partially, I'm genuinely interested. With all the effort being spent in opposition to gay marriage, welfare and abortion, and all the advocacy on behalf of this war, on behalf of big businesses, stern interrogation methods, etc...ALL of which I find either absent from Jesus' teachings or actively opposed by Jesus' teachings, I'm genuinely interested if the Religious Right feels that Jesus' words back up any of their positions.
And this is not to say that I think Christian thought ought to be the final arbiter in US politics - I don't (although I do think that Jesus' teachings ought to be Christians' final word).
Nor is it to say that I think I can find backing from Jesus for all my positions - I can't (Jesus, while seeming to love the environment, may not have spoke any on environmental policy, at least that I can think of off the top of my head).
It's just an honest question, if anyone's interested in biting.
218 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 218 of 218Hmm...let's see....you take Jesus seriously...at His word...and somehow the person that does that ends up with their christianity being questioned. Go figure.
http://www.ronrolheiser.com/arc112005.html
The Definition of a Christian.
I found this article of Rolheiser's posted at Mullberries, and I thought of you for some reason. ;-). I think you'll like the article, and I think you'd really like his books as well. He's written several. He's well despised by the Catholic right-wing, of course, because he doesn't think suicides are forever damned by an angry god. Not that the article is about that, but I read him every week in the local Catholic rag, and he addresses that issue at least once a year to general boos and hisses from the right.
Wow. That was powerful Madcapmum. Powerful.
Well, it seemed to be whistling Dan's tune. I'm not sure I'm a Christian anymore myself, but I do like Fr. Rolheiser, for his style if nothing else.
Well, I'm not sure I'm a Christian any more myself, but I like Rolheiser, and I appreciate good writing even when I'm not entirely sold on the subject matter.
And now, for the third time, apparently....
the first comment didn't show up, so I thought I'd hit something wrong, so I tried it again and got two.
Mostly I want to bump this thing up to 250 comments. ;-)
Well, thanks, MCM. But at what point will this thing collapse under its own weight - a great black hole of nothingness?
And thanks for the Rolheiser, I'll have to keep an eye out for his writings. You're right, it's right down my lane.
"Your perfunctory recitation of the Gospel without being able to explain why you know what you know sincerely concerns me."
Well, I appreciate the concern. I reckon I'm doing okay, though, thanks.
Perfunctory? Why I know what I know?
I thought "Cause the Bible says so," was the reasoning of your sort of Christians. Is that not good enough?
As I have said, I believe in Jesus' words because it's in the Bible and I believe in its truths. I believe in Jesus' words because they ring true to my soul (the Spirit of Truth, if you will). I believe in Jesus because his teachings have bourne themselves out in my real life in the real world.
I believe in Jesus.
What answer would you have me give?
That "I accepted Jesus into my life at the age of ten. At even that young age, I realized my own sinful nature and neediness of God to save my poor soul. I prayed the Prayer of Forgiveness and Jesus entered my heart and accepted me into heaven. Later, at the age of 16, I realized the need to surrender every part of my life every day to God and Rededicated my Life to Jesus and became Sanctified and have been following Jesus by God's grace since then."?
That kind of thing?
Okay, then there ya go. My Witness. My orthodoxy.
And Roger, since you didn't answer my question (it may have been muddled up in one of my big long dissertations) and since I'm concerned about your soul (if you're not following Jesus' teachings and all) let me ask again, directly. You said:
"Where in scripture is the principle that you are trying to enforce here? Namely, that Jesus' statement is a formula that applies to people in authority over groups of people"
And I answered.
My question to you is: Where in scripture is the principle that you're trying to enforce? Namely, that some Christians are not obliged to follow Jesus' teaching to Do Unto Others?
"But at what point will this thing collapse under its own weight - a great black hole of nothingness?"
Do you mean when will it disintegrate into a morass of circular argument? I hate to tell you, but....
I'm sure that never occurred to Fr. Rolheiser. Why don't you write and let him know?
"...and following Jesus' teachings are not the testimony of a Christian."
Ya know, that says a helluva lot right there.
(And don't lecture me on using "curse words." I know, Jesus told us not to cuss... right there next to where he told us it's okay for some of us to kill folk some of the time...)
Yeah, Dan. It says just about everything. Seems to me. Good golly.
>It tells us that works will not save us. We can't please God by imitating Him. We only please God by coming to Him, acknowledging our sin, and surrendering to Him. His Spirit then comes to live inside of us, and through Him, we can follow the teachings of Jesus - not in our own strength, but by yielding to the Spirit. That way, God gets the glory and not us. That way, our righteousness is found in Him, and not the filthy rags of self. That way, we can be sure we're saved (because we either know Jesus or we don't) instead of living our lives hoping that our good works outnumber our bad at the end.
Is that not a true statement? If it's not, I want to know why. My inquiring mind wants to know.
Okay, for the last time I'll answer one of your gratuitously religious questions, Roger. Fair enough?
Yes, from my point of view, it is true that we are saved by God's grace. That we are all fallen sinners in need of God's redemption. That our works are as dirty rags.
Is that what you want to hear? Fine, you've heard it now move on.
Move on to teachings such as Jesus gave in the story of the sheep and the goats. Wherein he split the people into two groups, those who did for and with the least of these and those who didn't.
And in the words of the immortal Keith Green: The only difference between the two are what they did, and didn't, do.
Salvation by works? Hardly. Just some evidence of actually following Jesus.
As I'm sure you know the story of the two brothers one who said he'd do what his father asked (but didn't) and one who refused to do what his father asked (but did). And Jesus asked "Which of these did what the father asked?" The answer to which is self-evident.
Salvation by works? Hardly. But a bit of evidence nonetheless.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Faith is our evidence. Faith always leads to good works. Remember: our works are fruits of the Spirit, not fruits of the believer. It's all about in whose strength the works are done. It's possible to do 'good works' in Jesus' name but die a lost person. You agree, right? (Matthew 7:21-23)
I don't know Dan, what you've said has been pretty plain to me. What's not to understand?
Huh?
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