It is rumored that Dr King often (always?) carried two books with him when he traveled: The Bible and Howard Thurman's "Jesus and the Disinherited." Some excerpts from the latter...
I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times that I have heard a sermon on the meaning of religion, of Christianity, to the man who stands with his back against the wall. it is urgent that my meaning be crystal clear. The masses of men live with their backs constantly against the wall. They are the poor, the disinherited, the dispossessed.
What does our religion say to them? The issue is not what it counsels them to do for others whose need may be greater, but what religion offers to meet their own needs. The search for an answer to this question is perhaps the most important religious quest of modern life...
It was this kind of atmosphere [a desperate need the oppressed have for liberty] that characterized the life of the Jewish community when Jesus was a youth in Palestine. The urgent question was what must be the attitude toward Rome. Was any attitude possible that would be morally tolerable and at the same time preserve a basic self-esteem—without which life couldn’t possibly have any meaning?
The question was not academic. It was the most crucial of questions. In essence, Rome was the enemy; Rome symbolized total frustration; Rome was the great barrier to peace of mind.
And Rome was everywhere. No Jewish person of the period could deal with the question of his practical life, his vocation, displace in society, until first he had settled deep within himself this critical issue.
This is the position of the disinherited in every age. What must be the attitude toward the rulers, the controllers of political, social, and economic life? This is the question of the Negro in American life. Until he has faced and settle that question, he cannot inform his environment with reference to his own life, whatever may be his preparation of his pretensions.
In the main, there were two alternative faced by the Jewish minority of which Jesus was a part. Simply stated, these were to resist or not to resist. But each of these alternatives has within it secondary alternatives...
The solution which Jesus found for himself and for Israel, as they faced the hostility of the Greco-Roman world, becomes the word and the work of redemption for all the cast-down people in every generation and in every age. I mean this quite literally. I do not ignore the theological and metaphysical interpretation of the Christian doctrine of salvation. But the underprivileged everywhere have long since abandoned any hope that this type of salvation deals with the crucial issues by which their days are turned into despair without consolation.
The basic facts that Christianity as it was born in the mind of this Jewish teacher and thinker appears as a technique of survival for the oppressed.
That it became, through the intervening years, a religion of the powerful and the dominant, used sometimes as an instrument of oppression, must not tempt us into believing that it was thus in the mind and life of Jesus. “In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
Whenever his spirit appears, the oppressed gather fresh courage; for he announced the good news that fear, hypocrisy, and hatred, the three hounds of hell that track the trail of the disinherited, need have no dominion over them...
https://epiphany-md.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Jesus-and-the-Disinherited-.pdf
38 comments:
What's your point with this post? It appears to suggest pointing outside for the reason for despair rather than simply taking care of business as best as one can. In this day and age, in this country, whining about "oppression" and being "disinherited" is deflection from personal responsibility. Few have it easy. Fewer still persevere convicted in God's support.
The point of the post is to quote Howard Thurman, writing about Jesus and admired by King. The point of Thurman (and Jesus and King, I'd say) is that there IS hope, in the beloved community and opposition to the loveless, oppressive realm.
Well then they're wrong. Real Christians put their hope in Jesus/God, not mortal man or any community of them.
I'll take Jesus' opinions and teachings (and King's and Thurman's) over your casual and unsupported hunches. But you are certainly welcome to your hunches.
We should not be welcoming anyone to their brutality and steadfast commitment to it. Jesus didn’t. He drove out the market sellers from the temple with chords. Marshall sells violence and hate.
Marshal...
Real Christians put their hope in Jesus/God, not mortal man or any community of them.
"Whenever two or three are gathered in my name, I am there with them."
~Jesus
"Whatsoever you do for the least of these, my brothers and sisters, you have done for me."
~Jesus
"Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it."
~St Paul
"For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another."
~St Paul
"I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one..."
~Jesus
etc.
The Beloved Community, as envisioned and spoken of by King and Thurman and, I'd say, spoken of by Jesus, is that the body of Christ is found within and among and through the oppressed, marginalized, poor and abused and that is the beloved community we are invited to join and find victory with and in and through. For truly, what we've done with and alongside "the least of these," we're doing with and alongside Jesus in a very real and literal manner.
And so, one can not put their hope in Jesus and God without staking a place alongside and within the Beloved Community. To try to divorce Jesus/God from the Beloved Community would be a misunderstanding and even a contradiction of Jesus words. I believe that's what Jesus, King and Thurman would tell you.
Do you think they would tell you otherwise?
You can believe as you wish, but I'd suggest joining in with this beloved community/realm of God as spoken of by these three great thinkers.
Nothing at all you've cited from Scripture supports your position. Our hope is in Christ/God alone, not mortal man.
"Do you think they would tell you otherwise?"
I would not appeal to King or Thurman, nor presume to place them in the same sentence with Christ, unless you can provide something more definitively identical, in which case you'd have King and Thurman citing Christ, thereby validating my position of putting one's hope in Christ alone.
There's a HUGE difference between joining with others to worship, versus putting one's hope in such communities.
And again, you regard the size of one's wallet with value. Scripture teaches against playing favorites, and any community of truly devoted followers of Christ is as good as the next, regardless of how "oppressed", "marginalized", "poor" or "abused". In that, you marginalize, oppress, and abuse those who aren't poor as if they are less worthy of our attachment...assuming, unlike you, they are all true Christians.
So try again and instead of imposing your preferred meaning onto verses you choose, choose those which actually prove your point. So far, you've not done that in the least.
Marshal...
Our hope is in Christ/God alone, not mortal man.
You're welcome to your opinion. I'm saying that Christ alone IS in the Beloved community, if you take his words seriously. You can't have Christ without Community.
It's like acknowledging God but hating or ignoring and not aligning with the poor in Christ. You can't have one without the other.
And of course, Scripture clearly teaches from Genesis to Revelation and particularly and specifically in the words of Jesus, we are to side with the least of these, for in so doing, we're siding with Jesus. According to Jesus.
But twist the Bible to a meaning that you prefer if you wish.
Marshal...
I would not appeal to King or Thurman, nor presume to place them in the same sentence with Christ
I know less about Thurman, but King is one of our modern saints. He is clearly a greater leader, moral model and human rights warrior than any Republican in our lifetimes. Why WOULDN'T you heed his wisdom and what he has to teach you?
Given his historic and miraculous work for human rights for an historically oppressed people who'd had centuries of racism and slavery and Jim Crow evil oppressing them, and his pouring out his life for the least of these, I'd say you would do well to listen to his actual words, not try to ignore them or twist them as the modern white conservative so often does.
Look to the realm of God and actual miracles when they happen. Don't be a fool siding with the racist oppressors in our history. Listen to King.
We are the body of Christ, we who follow in the human rights and justice acting steps of our Lord. We are saints and some of us are exceptionally so. King was one of those. You'd be missing so much by not heeding his words.
Our hope is in Christ, who tells us to love each other and wait for the Spirit to teach us further.
Hope, love, and wisdom.
Marshal rejects two of those, which indicates he doesn’t have real hope. He has a fetish, an idol, a bound book.
"I'm saying that Christ alone IS in the Beloved community, if you take his words seriously."
If I won't appeal to King or Thurman, I'd be moronic to appeal to the likes of you. So what you're saying is worthless to me...as well as to any who seeks true Christianity...without far better citations from Scripture into which you tried to force your meaning.
"You can't have Christ without Community."
It's the other way around, given Christ exists without us. And any community which would have you as a member is not a community with which anyone seeking true Christianity would be a part.
"It's like acknowledging God but hating or ignoring and not aligning with the poor in Christ."
It's nothing like that. But you have this twisted need to twist the conversation to suggest that putting my hope in God alone is somehow akin to "hating or ignoring and not aligning with the poor".
"You can't have one without the other."
What if I live alone out in the wilderness? It's a nonsensical, made-up and unsupportable premise.
"And of course, Scripture clearly teaches from Genesis to Revelation and particularly and specifically in the words of Jesus, we are to side with the least of these, for in so doing, we're siding with Jesus."
Don't dare speak of "the least of these" while you support the murder of the unborn. In the meantime, find me where Scripture/Christ speaks of favoring one group over another. I'm pretty sure we're not to play favorites.
"But twist the Bible to a meaning that you prefer if you wish."
That's your thing, not mine.
"I know less about Thurman, but King is one of our modern saints. He is clearly a greater leader, moral model and human rights warrior than any Republican in our lifetimes. Why WOULDN'T you heed his wisdom and what he has to teach you?"
He speaks the obvious. Why would I need to regard him as doing more than what is expected of any of us? And he's not the saint you want to believe he is, as he was as flawed as anyone, and in some ways more so. For example, he plagiarized more than Biden and was a far greater philanderer than Trump. And publicly, he eventually spent less time talking about personal responsibility and more about government handouts.
"Given his historic and miraculous work for human rights for an historically oppressed people who'd had centuries of racism and slavery and Jim Crow evil oppressing them, and his pouring out his life for the least of these, I'd say you would do well to listen to his actual words, not try to ignore them or twist them as the modern white conservative so often does."
I don't know any "modern white conservatives" who twist King's words and biography as much as white leftists like you do. I fully doubt you could provide any true examples.
"Don't be a fool siding with the racist oppressors in our history."
Says the Democrat...party of the racist oppressors in our history, now the party of infant oppressors, oppressors of women and oppressors of true Christians.
The "body of Christ" does not include such oppressors, yet you support that oppression constantly. I would never be a part of any group which includes the likes of you. I prefer actual Christians.
Marshal...
And he's not the saint you want to believe he is, as he was as flawed as anyone, and in some ways more so.
You recognize that "saint" does not mean "Without flaws"? He is a modern saint who changed the world for the better by listening to what Jesus actually said and embracing the Beloved Community of Jesus and fighting for justice.
If you disagree..? Well, you're just wrong.
"As debates over Critical Race Theory overtook public discourse throughout the Summer of 2021, conservative commentators followed a familiar pattern of invoking a sanitized version of MLK’s legacy that relies upon a selective reading of his many public speeches. The tactic transforms King from a radical civil rights activist who criticized capitalism, US imperialism, income inequality, and white supremacy, into a harmless symbol who simply wanted Americans to transcend race and imagine that racial inequities are a problem of the past. This latter version of King was specifically molded by conservatives in the post-Civil Rights to reject movements seeking systemic change. For if the United States is truly “colorblind,” they argue, then any focus on race and racism is unnecessary.
Thankfully, scholars and left-leaning activists have not been silent on these misrepresentations. One cartoonist creatively reconstructed how an anti-CRT activist would react when confronted with King’s criticisms of structural racism in the United States. MLK’s daughter, Bernice King, has confronted McCarthy and rightwing politicians like Josh Mandel on Twitter, noting how both men are grossly misrepresenting both her father’s legacy and the lessons of CRT."
https://www.aaihs.org/critical-race-theory-and-the-misappropriating-of-martin-luther-king-jr/
Marshal believes in the Bible but he’s never read it and doesn’t pay attention when he hears it.
“And he's not the saint you want to believe he is…”
Moses wasn’t allowed to enter the promised land.
David was an adulterer and collided with murder. Peter denied knowing Jesus twice.
Marshal thought God was using Trump. Trump committed treason.
Dr King preached love, peace, and fairness.
That doesn’t work to keep Marshal’s sense of his superiority over black people. So Marshal loves hate, brutality, and bathes in idiocy.
Marshal, you will not denigrate nor attack this hero and saint for any personal failings while you still support the actual pervert and deviant and anti-Christian Trump. Your hypocrisy is too great.
Now, I asked you a question: Do you recognize that the definition/meaning of saint does NOT mean one who is imperfect or has human flaws? It's a simple question.
I asked you if you recognize that King was one of the great leaders of last century? It's a simple question.
If you want to comment here, you'll have to answer questions when they're put to you.
Here are two more:
Do you understand the irony and hypocrisy of you attacking King for his infidelities while supporting the pervert, Trump?
Do you even recognize how perverted Trump is, as a human being?
If you think that Trump is a great leader while King wasn't, there's something sick in your head. Get help, man.
You asked, in a now deleted comment, if I believe there is more or less racism in this nation since King's time?
My answer to your question is that I don't know how to quantitatively measure "racism." What I can say is that the overt racism of the Civil Rights and prior eras has largely gone away. I can say that the overt oppression of black people has diminished greatly thanks to the work of King and other Civil Rights heroes.
Do you recognize that reality?
Also, it's pretty telling that you are ready to believe the worst about King based upon allegations from an FBI that was actively trying to destroy the man but want to believe the best about Trump in spite of credible allegations from the many women and people he's abused and molested.
Just noting.
Marshal relies upon a bunch of white racist FBI agents who were out to destroy the great man, MLK, for his "evidence" that King was a bad man and not a saint. Marshal believes the racists when they make their attacks, but disbelieves the 20+ women with no agenda (and all the others) who accused Trump of sexual harassment/assault, as well as all the people who accused Trump of cheating them out of money.
Marshal thinks that Trump is a good leader and King was a bad man.
Marshal exposes his unhealthy mind and allegiance to the actual racists and deviants and his antipathy towards greatness and the Beloved Community of God.
Marshal said, in a now-deleted comment (because he's not answering questions, and making unfounded, unsupported attacks and irrational claims detached from reality)...
They didn't just say, "Oh look!!! An uppity black man!!! Let's destroy him!!!" That's absurd and unsupported by known facts.
That is precisely what they did. J Edgar Hoover (director of the FBI) was a known racist.
Do you recognize that reality?
Hoover was also irrationally afraid of and devoted to destroying anyone he considered a deviant or a potential communist. THESE are the facts. He directed the FBI to do what they could do to find ANY "dirt" on this black leader who was threatening what Hoover considered the status quo of white supremacy/traditions.
Do you recognize that reality?
https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691175119/the-gospel-of-j-edgar-hoover
Marshal spent many words saying nothing of consequence while refusing to answer the questions put to him. Those comments were deleted.
The gist of a lot of what Marshal had to say was that I "worship" King, which is just ridiculous and that I "ignore" his failures as a person, again, ridiculous.
By all appearances, it seems that King had affairs. Like King David. But King David was according to God (as recorded in the Bible), "A man after God's own heart," and a hero of the faith. A saint.
Which gets back to the point: Being a saint does not mean that one is perfect. And, in King's case, this flawed human being (flawed as we all are), he was one of the great leaders of last century and his impact and improvements in the world because of his work AND the work of all those fighting the good fight against racism, systemic racism, poverty and violence/militarism/consumptive spending has made the whole world a better place. Because of course it has. But Marshal can't acknowledge that simple observable reality, nor can he condemn the pervert con men, Trump and Santos, in spite of how they're actively making the world a more vulgar, demeaned and corrupt place.
Get on the right side of history, morality and justice, Marshal.
You're lying again. Each time you delete me is another lie, especially when you fail to accurately present my sentiments after deleting them. This wouldn't be a problem if you simply leave my comments up....as I always do with yours at my blog....and respond to what I said, regardless of how your girlish sensitivities might feel assaulted. What a wuss!!
The gist of what I said is accurate. You worship King and ignore his sexual immorality which seems far worse than that of Trump, with whom you do just the opposite. You highlight his flaws and never have spoken of one good thing he's done, which are many.
King didn't have mere "affairs". He had orgies...regularly and is said to have never turned down an offer for sex by women not his wife. This was nothing like King David, as there is nothing which suggests David acted in as morally corrupt a manner as did King.
Never once have I minimized King's work as a civil rights activist. NEVER, you liar. To suggest such a thing is an abhorrent lie...very normal for you. The point here is your wanton double standard in assigning the worst labels to those who were no worse than King morally, and in Trump's case, likely as effective...with Trump benefiting ALL Americans and not just a segment of society (and in less time, too).
But as we've seen so routinely, you're an inveterate liar, so I expect nothing better from you but continued lying.
Marshal continues to believe the FBI gossip about King, people who were committed to destroying King because he MIGHT DARE to think that there are flaws in capitalism and that maybe some form of Democratic Socialism might be a better option. But here's the thing: WE ARE A FREE PEOPLE WHO ARE FREE TO THINK OUR OWN THOUGHTS about economic system. We are FREE to criticize capitalism. We have NO OBLIGATION to bow down to the god, capitalism or those who insist upon it. To hell with such people. We are FREE and not beholden to Marshal, Reagan or St Adam Smith.
But here's the thing: WE KNOW that the FBI was full of anti-liberty types who wanted to silence anyone who MIGHT be critical of capitalism and supportive of democratic socialism. And especially, these white FBI agents and racists like Hoover, were indeed wanting to stop King and his Civil Rights work. To hell with those racists and their gossip and demonizing attacks.
Marshal...
Never once have I minimized King's work as a civil rights activist. NEVER, you liar.
Also Marshal (my paraphrase)...
"I mean, I like that ONE LINE he said about being colorblind. The rest of the stuff he said was stupid and anti-American and should be investigated by racists at the FBI and make his life hell. But that ONE LINE, that was great."
(Failing to understand how dismissing most of his message is not minimizing King's actual work doesn't mean you respect his work and are not minimizing it/attacking it/demeaning it/demonizing that man who was so much greater than you, in spite of his failures/flaws.)
Marshal, answer any questions in bold directly before commenting further.
Marshal...
Hoover wasn't a racist. There is no proof to support the claim.
"I think it's pretty widely known that Hoover had racist views, that he was racist. But one of the things that I wanted to try to figure out in this biography was where did those ideas come from? Washington is one part of the story. But then I began to look into his college fraternity, which was this organization called Kappa Alpha. He was very devoted to Kappa Alpha, became its chapter president, was active as an alum for many, many years, drew many of the first generation of FBI officials out of Kappa Alpha.
"And it turns out that Kappa Alpha was an explicitly Southern segregationist fraternity that had been created in 1865 to kind of carry on the lost cause of the white South in the aftermath of the Civil War. And by the time Hoover joined it, its kind of national standard bearers, its most famous alums were people like Thomas Dixon, who was a famous novelist in that moment, who wrote the books upon which Birth of the Nation, the sort of famously racist film of 1915, celebrating the Ku Klux Klan, was based. And so, you can just see Hoover's mind being shaped by this broader environment, but by this very specific institution, which he was very devoted to and really loved his whole life."
https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2022/12/09/understanding-j-edgar-hoovers-america
More...
"Many historians have described Hoover as a racist. He viewed the civil rights movement - and its leaders -- as a subversive threat to the American way of life. He particularly hated King. Hoover was willing to use the FBI's enormous power to try to destroy people, like King, whom he considered the nation's enemies. In 1976, a congressional investigation described the FBI's campaign against King as "one of the most abusive of all FBI programs."
https://features.apmreports.org/arw/king/d1.html
More still...
https://andscape.com/features/mlk-fbi-looks-at-j-edgar-hoovers-crusade-to-undermine-martin-luther-king-jr/
Just for the record.
And I repeat:
WE ARE A FREE PEOPLE WHO ARE FREE TO THINK OUR OWN THOUGHTS about economic system. We are FREE to criticize capitalism. We have NO OBLIGATION to bow down to the god, capitalism or those who insist upon it.
Do you recognize that it's not a crime now, nor was it then, to be critical of capitalism or consider socialism/communism as an option? That just because cowards like Hoover feared socialism/communism, that didn't make it a crime to "associate with communists..."?
Do you recognize, on the other hand, how wrong (and illegal, I believe - certainly should be) it is to secretly wiretap innocent people who have committed no crimes because they MIGHT be "associating with communists..."?
Don't go on telling me how much we SHOULD "fear communism" - I'm not asking you about your fears. I'm pointing out the reality that King had done nothing wrong and yet, the FBI who feared the Civil Rights movement might be connected to "communism," or lured by such ideas, poured an insane amount of effort to trying to attack King and others in the Civil Rights movement.
Also, it's quite telling that you think that King's possible extramarital affairs are somehow worse than King David's 1. Abusing his power as king, 2. To KILL an innocent man 3. whose wife, David had bedded down (raped?).
HOW are consensual affairs (allegedly) WORSE than murder and that sort of abuse of power? Good God!
And who were these "communists" that weak-minded and racist cowards feared King was "associating with..."? Well, in doing a little looking around, I see that one such "association" was with the Highlander School...
"The school, situated in the Tennessee hills, initially focused on labor and adult education. By the early 1950s, however, it shifted its attention to race relations. Highlander was one of the few places in the South where integrated meetings could take place, and served as a site of leadership training for southern civil rights activists."
https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/highlander-folk-school
THIS is what the FBI, in their racist cowardice feared: Black people being organized and working with their white allies. They (you all) just need to demonize it irrationally so that weak-minded white people will also fear these strong, smart organized black people and their allies, so they brand it with "commies."
Don't be a weak-minded tool of racists.
More info on King's "communist associations..."
"While the bureau’s relentless scrutiny of King
failed to reveal any communist leanings,
it did turn up evidence of King’s extramarital affairs. Hoover and his agents then tried to leverage that information not only to discredit and weaken King as a leader of the civil rights movement, but
to blackmail him into taking his own life.
"Because the CPUSA had supported greater civil rights for Black Americans as far back as the 1930s, Hoover was not alone in viewing the emerging civil rights movement of the 1950s as susceptible to communist influence..."
“We must mark [King] now...as the most dangerous Negro of the future of this Nation from the standpoint of communism, the Negro and National security,” wrote William Sullivan, head of the bureau’s domestic intelligence division..."
https://www.history.com/news/martin-luther-king-jr-fbi-j-edgar-hoover-communism
Vile, evil, stupid racists and fascists who feared the shadows and abused their power to try to take down a great man and cause. Shame on them.
And, now fifty years later, shame on those who defend those who attacked King falsely and who continue to attack King.
These are the racist thugs you're defending and believing as a source for your "information." Fascists who fabricate non-existent reasons to pour thousands of hours and who knows how many millions of dollars into trying to take down a civil rights hero.
Marshal continues to support fascism and think it's okay to investigate people who've committed no crimes other than associating with "communists," EVEN THOUGH, that isn't illegal AND there was no evidence that King did. The fascist "red scare" is a dark period of US history that Marshal wishes would come back and looks back on it fondly.
You've lost.
From History.com...
"Though the FBI stopped wiretapping King’s home in April 1965 and his office the following year—it continued investigating him all the way up until his assassination in Memphis on April 4, 1968. The extent of the
FBI’s campaign attempt to use King’s personal life against him,
including the infamous “suicide letter,”
as it became known, first came to light in 1976, four years after Hoover’s death, with the damning report of the Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations With Respect to Intelligence Activities, popularly known as the Church Committee.
“The FBI has stated that
at no time did it have any evidence that Dr. King himself
was a communist or connected with the Communist Party,”
the Church Committee reported in a section dedicated to the King investigation...”
https://www.history.com/news/martin-luther-king-jr-fbi-j-edgar-hoover-communism
Consider that.
King had committed NO crimes.
King was NOT a communist.
King was not supporting the communist party.
ALL King was "guilty of" was trying to secure basic human rights for black citizens, as well as promote a more just, less violent, less racist, more equitable society.
For THAT (and NOT any criminal or "commie" ties), the FBI tried to ruin this innocent man.
The FBI made the decision to keep investigating him and trying to discredit him and bring him down - even attempting to blackmail him with the "suicide letter..." - EVEN when they knew the "communist" accusations were baseless.
But it was all about "commie" ties, Marshal has convinced himself. When no such ties were discovered and even when he'd done NOTHING illegal.
They wanted to crucify an innocent man, one might say.
But Marshal clings to his belief in those fascist racists and not the evidence of King's own life, poured out on behalf of the least of these. Marshal continues to denigrate this great leader and deny his greatness, while Marshal defends the racists and fascistic tactics of the FBI.
Open your eyes.
Marshal STILL defends the racists who attacked and demonized King and said...
"So how did the FBI try to "ruin this man" exactly?"
By spending more than a decade relentlessly spying on, harassing, following the every move of AN INNOCENT MAN.
I'm not sure what part of INNOCENT you're failing to understand?
How many taxpayer dollars did these racists and tyrants waste on hounding an innocent man who, at the end of the day, they ONLY could find that perhaps he was unfaithful to his wife (I'm not willing to trust these racist deviants who produced tapes that THEY allege show evidence of marital infidelity, even though YOU are willing to trust these perverts)?
He was innocent and their DECADE PLUS history of "investigating" (harassing, molesting, bothering, threatening) him was uncalled for and illegal and morally wrong.
Spending no doubt MILLIONS of dollars and uncounted work-hours harassing King IS an effort to ruin an innocent man. And when they found ZERO criminal behavior from this great man, they tried to allege that he was unfaithful to his wife to try to ruin an INNOCENT man.
What part of that are you failing to understand is evil?
Questions you can answer:
Do you recognize that King committed NO CRIMES?
Do you recognize that King did NOTHING ILLEGAL?
Do you recognize that spending those millions of dollars and thousands of man hours pursuing and harassing an innocent man was wrong?
Do you recognize that trying to use marital infidelities (alleged) to ruin a great civil rights leader is wrong?
If not, what's wrong with your moral compass?
Don't bother commenting further if you don't answer those questions.
"Do you recognize that trying to use marital infidelities (alleged) to ruin a great civil rights leader is wrong?"
Well, that's seem to be your most important reason for trying to ruin the presidential legacy of Donald Trump, so why should I ignore it with regard to MLK, who also as a major plagiarist and denier of the deity of Christ?
My moral compass works very well, thank you. YOURS, on the other hand, is case specific. A real hypocrite and fake Christian...kinda like MLK.
1. I never said that Trump's marital infidelity is why he shouldn't be president. Never. Not one time.
Just like I never said that Clinton's infidelity should keep him out of office.
2. In Clinton's case, I said he should step down from office for abusing his power to take advantage of a young underling.
In Trump's case, I said the WIDE RANGE of credible charges from 20+ women of sexual harassment, sexual assault was ONE group of reasons why he was not fit for office. Charges made even more credible by Trump's own perverted, rapey, misogynistic words and attacks on women.
And that was just one group of serious reasons to not accept him as a deserving candidate.
Now, answer the question put to you or go away.
Answer. The. Question.
Do you recognize that trying to use marital infidelities (alleged) to ruin a great civil rights leader - AND an innocent man - is wrong?
Marshal also said...
[King] could have exerted more energy to bring these laws to national attention, much as Frederick Douglass did, and rallied change in that way.
So, spending most of your adult life and your career bringing attention to unjust laws, policies and practices (which eventually won the Civil Rights battle let us note) is not exerting enough energy?
Literally pouring out his life,
literally putting his life on the line,
literally being reviled, threatened, hated and persecuted by white racists and their allies in the nation and in the gov't
and eventually literally being assassinated...
ALL of that was NOT exerting enough energy? What's wrong with you? Are you ignorant of King's life or just blinded by ties to your allegiances to "white history" that you STILL, in the 21st century, can't recognize how much of his life he poured out to make the world a better place?
And yes, Marshal, people who are not Jesus can and do pour out their lives for humanity and the oppressed. Indeed, Jesus sort of suggested we do that. As Peter notes...
To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you,
leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
I'm surprised you didn't know we should follow in Jesus' steps and pour out our lives for the oppressed and marginalized, as Jesus taught.
“Blessed are you when people insult you,
persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me..."
"Be on your guard;
you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues.
On my account
you will be brought before governors and kings
as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles...
“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child;
children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.
You will be hated by everyone because of me,
but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved..."
"It is enough for students to be like their teachers,
and servants like their masters.
If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul,
how much more the members of his household!
“So do not be afraid of them,
for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed,
or hidden that will not be made known."
I asked...
"Do you recognize that trying to use marital infidelities (alleged) to ruin a great civil rights leader - AND an innocent man - is wrong?"
Marshal finally answered...
No.
There you have it. King was a man who'd committed no crimes who was hounded for over a decade by racists law enforcement figures, including and especially the FBI, because they baselessly feared that King might have "commie" allegiances and when they couldn't come up with ANY legal reasons to continue to harass him, they tried to use allegations of infidelity to bring him down. IF their "reason" (baseless or not) was that he was a "commie" and THEIR OWN DECADE + LONG INVESTIGATION proved that wasn't the case, WHY would they try to bring down a man they knew to be not guilty of any crimes?
And why would Marshal defend these racists?
WHY does Marshal think it's anyone's business if a person may or may not have had consensual sex with other adults? Why does Marshal think that the FBI who wanted to bring King down - crimes or not - are a reliable source for allegations about sexual impropriety?
Why is Marshal being hypocritical in dismissing the credible claims of 20+ women who Trump sexually harassed/assaulted THEM (ie, not consensual sexual behavior) but denigrating a great man like King who may have had consensual sexual affairs?
Marshal still hasn't answered why he views King David's MURDER in defense of his affairs are worse than King's alleged consensual affairs? Why David can be a man after God's own heart and a saint, but King can't be considered a great man?
These are reasonable questions.
Marshal's other comments were more vulgar and baseless attacks.
One thing Marshal said, though, is interesting...
He wasn't acting on Christian principles, but on the mere notion that all men are created equal
As if the notion of the equality of humanity is not a Christian principle?
As to Marshal's continued denial of King's Christianity when King's "sin" in that regard is not hewing to conservative human traditions maybe (and to be fair, Marshal doesn't know SQUAT about what King believes... he's clearly reading other conservative, likely white, humans in conservative human traditions speaking about what King did and didn't believe)... I don't care that you all conflate Christian "essentials" to "people must affirm the beliefs that conservative human traditions have held..." as if allegiance to human ideology makes one a Christian.
It don't.
And again, Marshal, vulgar, demeaning, sexist, racist comments will not remain. You'll have to get over that. You want your comments to stay here? Directly answer questions in a respectful manner.
Other questions left unanswered:
spending most of your adult life and your career bringing attention to unjust laws, policies and practices (which eventually won the Civil Rights battle let us note) is not exerting enough energy?
ALL of that was NOT exerting enough energy?
What's wrong with you?
Are you ignorant of King's life or just blinded by ties to your allegiances to "white history" that you STILL, in the 21st century, can't recognize how much of his life he poured out to make the world a better place?
"And again, Marshal, vulgar, demeaning, sexist, racist comments will not remain."
Please stop lying about me. That's no way to hold and "adult" conversation.
"There you have it."
Not all of it, because you delete my comments like the lying coward you are. But I'll try again and see if you can actually rebut what I say like a man of integrity would.
"King was a man who'd committed no crimes..."
Well, actually he did as evidenced by his 29 arrests, though I don't argue they were mostly bullshit arrests. However, if there was some actual statute used against him, then he technically committed crimes regardless of serious or not they were. At the same time, I would not claim those arrests had much to do with the FBI's intentions against him. His commie connections were enough, and as his movement proceeded, he did indeed spout far leftist beliefs which were anathema to American principles.
"...who was hounded for over a decade by racists law enforcement figures, including and especially the FBI..."
You say this as if there was some great conspiracy involving all LE agencies. This is crap. While certain southern police departments were certainly of a racist bent at that time in American history in those southern states, only a Trabue would tie them to the Feds without a shred of evidence to support it. It wasn't race which motivated the FBI as far as I've been able to prove through the tons of left-leaning links I've read since we've begun this "conversation". That's only been asserted.
"...because they baselessly feared that King might have "commie" allegiances..."
There was no "might have" about it. He was associated closely with numerous card-carrying communists, and after pretending to distance himself, he covertly maintained his relationships. As his "mission" progressed, however, his marxist beliefs manifested more openly. As such, the influence of his commie associates, while not necessarily required for him to believe as he did, was not an irrational supposition on the part of the FBI, during a time when communism was far more threatening to our nation. Being a lying lefty socialist yourself, you minimize these realities as you minimize all negatives of any degree which are true of those you worship.
"...and when they couldn't come up with ANY legal reasons to continue to harass him, they tried to use allegations of infidelity to bring him down."
Hey...whatever it takes to slow the progress of a lefty. It's well known that commies seek out just the type of situation MLK led to exploit for their own purposes. They believe themselves justified for their cause. In a similar fashion, so did the anti-communist FBI, but because they were worried of MLK's leftism, you don't give them the same degree of understanding. They did have a job of working on behalf of the nation, you know. So while I can question their tactics, too, I can appreciate the gravity of the situation which compelled them, just as you have no problem with communist infiltration of the civil rights movement. At the same time, a guy who was as debauched as King should have been more widely known by the people who put him on a pedestal. As it stands, he's one of the only lefties whose sins you'll minimize. The question is, why? There's not much which will change now as a result of accepting the truth of his perversions. I don't believe anyone of any race would have the balls to downgrade the national holiday he never deserved, so why whine? But as you're so willing to criticize others for their sexual sins, you're a dick to pretend he was just indulging "marital infidelities" as if he told a white lie!
Anyway...
MLK was the face of a movement that was not completely and utterly reliant upon him for success. There were even white people pushing for an end to the racism for which his part of the nation was known. But by the time he was murdered, he was not necessarily beloved by even all black people. This is a part of the history you white-guilted race-hustlers either ignore or don't even know. According to a 1968 Harris Poll, almost 60% of black Americans though he was irrelevant. "...many turned against him in the last year of his life. The scorn of being unwelcome to preach in black churches was particularly painful. King was being ridiculed by black elites like Roy Wilkins, Whitney Young, Adam Clayton Powell, Ralph Bunche and even Thurgood Marshall. And for everyday black folk, and for the youth in particular, King’s message of nonviolence was falling on deaf ears. They wanted Black Power." (https://time.com/5042070/donald-trump-martin-luther-king-mlk/)
I'm not the blind one here, Danny-boy. That would be you, and yours is willful, intentional, selective blindness. "White history" your ass! ACTUAL history, of which you cherry-pick that which serves your unholy cause.
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