How Do We Recognize Good?

I've long tried to get answers from my conservative friends and family about their theories of the corrupt nature (totally depraved) of humanity and how "there is NO ONE who is good." There are holes in their arguments that they just leave unaddressed. We've covered that on this blog before.

But this week, Stan and his colleagues over at the conservative "Winging It" blog have been addressing their theory (again, without dealing with the holes in their arguments or even acknowledging them) and that has caused one of them (Lorna) to ask some questions. I'll answer her questions here as a back door way of pointing out the very holes that they are ignoring. 

The statement was made...

"Of course there are good people," we all want to counter. "Just open your eyes. Even bad people do good things.” We even contend that humans are “basically good” ….

Lorna replied:

I can’t offer any rebuttals not already said by others, but I am always struck by the illogical nature of such a contention. For humans to distinguish “basically good people” from “particularly wicked individuals” among us is a completely relative exercise, requiring a subjective, sliding scale. On such a spectrum, when does “good” become “wicked” and how much of one behavior causes a person to fall solidly into one category rather than the other?

When does good become wicked? When it starts to cause deliberate, awful harm. Is that a precise measure? NO. Is it a reasonable measure, generally understood in the real world?

IF, in the attempt to do some good action - say, protecting a baby from falling over and hurting themselves - someone accidentally slips and, instead of stopping the baby from falling over, actually causes that baby to fall... that is not a wicked act. Of course. We all recognize that good intention and just an accident that happens.

IF, in the attempt to stop the baby from falling out of a window, the do-gooder rushes over and startles the baby who THEN actually falls out the window, resulting in terrible harm, that still isn't wicked. Of course. It's an accident in the process of trying to do good.

IF, in the attempt to keep baby from hurting themselves, someone kidnaps the baby and locks them in a padded cell for the rest of their lives, THAT has crossed over into catastrophic harm and an obvious human rights abuse, EVEN IF the intentions were good.

Truly, I don't think this is as hard as some may think. I'd love for these conservative types to think it through with me and answer such questions, but they don't/won't.

When does someone fall into the category of wicked rather than good? Again, not as hard as they seem to think: WHEN they take deliberate actions that are abuses of human rights and cause harm. EVEN IF their intent was good (hint: It often isn't).

I'd love for some of them to explain why they think it's difficult?

Which is not to say there may not be hard to call exceptions. What IF someone is concerned about an active shooter and they have a gun and open fire at the shooter and, as a result, they hit innocent bystanders? Probably still not wicked, just perhaps ill-advised and poorly executed. Still, the point stands: It's just not that difficult as a rule to recognize the significant difference between actively wicked and good.

Lorna continued:

Who sets these standards and what causes them to change--i.e. which humans qualify to judge “good” and “wicked” and in-between? 

Common sense. Moral reasoning. I'd suggest that perhaps the best standards are ideals like the Golden Rule, which are universally recognized across cultures and religions, even if not universally agreed upon in practice. Another standard would be basic human rights. Does an action actively cause harm to someone/some group? Does an action deny someone's humanity? Does an action imprison or sicken someone? These are the building block standards for recognizing good from evil.

Do you disagree? (Another question to go unanswered).


For those who'd disagree with these common sense guidelines, I always ask what they would propose instead? Someone's interpretation of holy texts? Which holy texts? WHOSE interpretations? On what basis would we choose one person's/group's interpretation of a given holy text over someone else's? Their say-so?

That's just not good enough. It's a whimsical human opinion not based in anything more than their opinions and interpretations and, perhaps, their particular human traditions.

We can see that it’s impossible to even judge people’s natures by their behavior, since “even bad people do good things” (wouldn’t’ that make them “good people”?) 

I would disagree. Or rather, I'd clarify. It's not possibly to PERFECTLY assess someone's nature by their behavior, but their behaviors and motivations ARE reasonable tools for understanding their character. By their fruit/actions, you will know them. Again, this is just common sense. What would you propose to gauge their character by if NOT their observation of their words, attitudes and actions?

There are some rational, common sense answers to her type of questions. But will they ever deal with the obvious questions that arise from their human theories?

I've not met conservatives yet who can/will/do. I'm sure they are out there, but I've not found them.

A Better Way

Some of the best parts of being in the Beloved Community of Progressive- and Open-minded folks include:

- We are a part of a truly beloved community with beautiful, amazing people all around us from all parts of the world that we get to share life with;

- All the wonderful people who are observably good, trying their best, just wanting to have their own safe, peaceful, loving place in this world. What's to disagree with in that?

- It's a beautiful world that we all share, and we are fired up to celebrate and care for it;

- It's a beautiful world, and we're enamored with spending time in it;

- Hiking;

- Gardening;

- Recycling garbage into art!

- Freedom;

- Human rights;

- Live and let live;

- If you don't want to marry a guy or a gal, you don't HAVE to...
you're free to be you and WE'RE free to be us;

- If you don't think a specific medical process is right for you, NO ONE will force a medical procedure upon you! You're free to be you and make your decisions... and we're free to make ours; 

In short, the best things about belonging in the Beloved Community are Liberty, Love and Grace. THESE are our common ground, or can be, regardless of political party or partisan leanings! We are part of a welcoming, empowering, supportive beloved community of All who wish to join... and if you don't want to join, that's fine, too. Just don't cause harm to others. Because, Love, decency and just basic common sense, friends.

Let's tear down the walls that divide, protect the marginalized and love, love, love.

Oh, and one last thing: When someone not only rejects being part of the Beloved Community for themselves, but they try to deny rights to the rest of us, we in the Beloved Community can and will stand in solidarity with each other. Of course, not everyone IS making good, non-harmful decisions. The Beloved Community is there to fight against those who'd cause harm, too, as well as celebrate all the great things that come with belonging in what Wendell Berry would call the Membership.

More Words from Jim Palmer

More words from Jim Palmer:

I have a public confession to make.

I am an unbeliever.

I am an unbeliever in a God who lives somewhere “out there,” hovering above the universe like a divine landlord—watching, judging, intervening when it suits him.

I am an unbeliever in a God wrapped in maleness, whose image props up patriarchy and calls domination “divine order.”

I am an unbeliever in a God who tortures people forever for getting theology wrong, then calls it justice.

I am an unbeliever in a God who rigs the game from the beginning—baiting the first humans into failure and then blaming all of humanity for it.

I am an unbeliever in a God who bypasses a woman’s full humanity by turning her into a divine incubator because ordinary biology supposedly wasn’t good enough.

I am an unbeliever in a God who demands loyalty to one ancient book, as if truth stopped evolving thousands of years ago.

I am an unbeliever in a God who engineers a fallen world and then demands blood—his own son’s blood—to clean up a mess he designed.

I am an unbeliever in a God who calls belief a virtue even when it contradicts reason, conscience, compassion, and lived experience.

I am an unbeliever in a God who mysteriously “anoints” men with spiritual authority and expects women to call it holy.

I am an unbeliever in a God whose endgame is violence—Jesus on a white horse, enemies crushed, the world burned into submission.

I am an unbeliever in a God who puts conditions on love, qualifiers on grace, and fine print on acceptance.

So yes, I am an unbeliever in 'that' God.

And here’s the thing: we made that God up.

That God looks suspiciously like our fears, our power structures, our need for control—projected into the sky and baptized as truth.

Jesus didn’t believe in that God either.

Jesus didn’t teach a distant, punitive, blood‑thirsty deity obsessed with belief systems and moral scorekeeping. He spoke of a God discovered within, among, and between us—a God of radical inclusion, boundary‑breaking love, and relentless compassion.

The tragedy isn’t unbelief.

The tragedy is clinging to a God Jesus himself was trying to dismantle.

So yes—count me out.

I am done believing in ideas that collapse under scrutiny.

I am done baptizing contradiction and calling it mystery.

I am done mistaking control for holiness and fear for faith.

I am done pretending silence is virtue and obedience is love.

Words from Jim Palmer

Some words from a dude named Jim Palmer whom I don't know but who makes a lot of sense...

People love to say, “My authority is the Bible.”

Hate to break it to you: it’s not.

Your authority is what your pastor, your denomination, your favorite author, and that one sermon series told you the Bible means. Let’s not pretend you cracked open ancient texts in Hebrew and Greek and emerged with pure, bias-free divine download.

You inherited an interpretation. Then you called it “truth.”

Big difference.

Because here’s the uncomfortable reality nobody wants to admit: there is no single, clean, uncontested thing called “Biblical Christianity.” Never has been.

Christians have disagreed—loudly and often—about pretty much everything. Who Jesus was, what he meant, how salvation works, what the cross did, who’s in, who’s out… it’s been a theological food fight for 2,000 years.

And yet somehow, every group ends up convinced they’re the ones who finally got it right.

Convenient.

What you see in the Bible isn’t just “what’s there.” It’s what you’ve been trained to see.

Your conclusions are filtered through a whole cocktail of influences:

Your assumptions about what the Bible is—divine dictation or human wrestling match.

Whether you read it like a history book or a poem.

Which verses you were told matter most—and which ones to politely ignore.

What you think the authors were doing in the first place.

The theological box you’re trying to keep everything inside of.

How much Greek and Hebrew you actually understand (or pretend to).

All the books, sermons, and hot takes you’ve already absorbed.

Whether you trust logic, experience, or your gut.

How much contradiction you’re willing to live with without losing sleep.

How open you are to changing your mind (or how allergic you are to it).

Whether your current beliefs are comforting enough to protect at all costs.

How much time you’re willing to spend actually digging versus just repeating.

How tightly you cling to your tribe’s version of the truth.

And the big one—your entire life experience shaping what you think God is like.

But sure… “the Bible says.”

Here’s the plot twist:

People don’t read the Bible.

They read themselves into the Bible.

And then defend it like God personally endorsed their interpretation.

Now, when people leave religion, they often swing hard the other way and start trashing the Bible like it’s the villain in the story.

But let’s be honest—that’s a bit lazy too.

It’s not the Bible’s fault you were handed a rigid, literalist, fear-based framework and told, “This is the only way to see it.” That’s not the only way people have ever read these texts—it’s just the loudest one in certain circles.

Outside the fundamentalist bubble, people have been reading the Bible as poetry, protest literature, myth, metaphor, wisdom, and spiritual reflection for a long, long time.

So maybe the problem isn’t the book.

Maybe it’s the certainty.

Maybe it’s the arrogance of thinking your version is ‘the’ version.

Maybe it’s outsourcing your thinking to “experts” and calling it faith.

So here’s a radical idea:

Ask questions.

Think critically.

Hold your conclusions loosely.

And for the love of honesty, stop pretending your interpretation dropped straight from heaven untouched by human hands.

Because it didn’t.

And deep down—you know it.

Words of Wisdom from Dr John M Perkins

I was reminded today of the author, philosopher, pastor, John M Perkins. I was struck because I hadn't thought of him for some time. But it was reading his book, Let Justice Roll Down, that, in part, helped set my path for where I am today regarding the struggle for justice and the beloved community. Probably even before reading much of Dr King, it was Perkins who helped push this then conservative young man in the pursuit of justice for all.

Sadly, I hear he is in ill-health. Prayers for him and his loved ones.

Some quotes, then, from Dr Perkins:

"Come dream with me. Dream of a fight for something bigger, something more important and worthwhile. We need to fight for justice and peace, for the walls between us to come crashing down.” 

“And it requires that we make some uncomfortable confessions. G.K. Chesterton said, "It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem." I believe this statement can be applied to the lack of reconciliation within the Church today. We've not been able to arrive at the solution because we haven't seen or acknowledged the problem. 

The problem is that there is a gaping hole in our gospel. We have preached a gospel that leaves us believing that we can be reconciled to God but not reconciled to our Christian brothers and sisters who don't look like us - brothers and sisters with whom we are, in fact, one blood.”

“If we have been silent and have chosen to ignore the mistreatment of others in the past, we should begin to speak up and challenge injustices. If we were racist and bigoted in our speech and actions, there should be a radical change that is observable. If we have been angry and spiteful toward the other, there should be a radical change that is observable. 

And, yes, if we have an abundance of wealth and we have the opportunity to use this blessing to encourage those we have previously been prejudiced against, we should open our hands in Christian love and brotherhood. We should tear down the walls that have separated us for so long.”

“Throughout Scripture we read about God's concern for people who are vulnerable or suffering - the poor, the widows and orphans, the foreigners in the land, and so on. All Christians should feel a sense of calling to where there is pain in our society.”

....

And yes, I know that Dr Perkins is probably (way?) more conservative than many others in the Civil Rights movement... he may still be anti-LGBTQ (as he would almost certainly have been in the first more than half of his life, as was I...), although I don't know that. Still, his words moved this conservative Southern Baptist boy towards a more justice and beloved community direction and I'm thankful for that.

The People in My Dreams

Kentucky poet, writer, James Still

Last night, truly, just a few moments ago,

I had a dream I wish I could remember more of.

My wife, Donna, and I were at a conference -

the purpose of the conference was vague

and oft-changing -

and it was just a delightful wealth of great people.

Theologian, writer and prophet, Ken Sehested, was there and acted as a guide for us, introducing us to people as if we were honored guests. Lee Pennington, a great Kentucky poet and former teacher of mine, was in the ever-changing crowd. (Thanks, Ken, for being our host, I felt truly honored, as I don't think we've ever met in person!)

I believe songwriting Minneapolis friend, Bret Hesla, was there. Kate Sanders (poet and musician friend) was there, reading poetry. Poet and friend, Mackenzie Berry, was there, too, I believe. It all had a very Kentucky/Appalachian feel to it.

And much of the time was spent doing more mundane activities like finding which house we were supposed to be having the next meeting or lunchtime gathering in and I never was sure where we were supposed to be, but it didn't bother me as it was all such a delight.

Eventually Wendell Berry and James Still (Kentucky poet, writer who's been dead since 2001) ambled by to say some kind words, as if they were fans of ours! Although she didn't stop to say hello, Kentucky poet bell hooks was in the crowd and what an honor to see her! (She passed away recently... Last year?)

Eventually that lunch gathering was over and people began to disperse and so did the dream. I can't recall the words that were shared, but I know they were gold. The overwhelming feeling the dream left in my soul, as the details are now starting to evaporate, was Warmth. It was a gathering of good and kind people who shared warm affection for each other.

Oh, how I could remember the words that were shared in that dream.

In lieu of that, here is one of Still's poems that seems apt...

How it was in that place,

how light hung in a bright pool

Of air like water, in an eddy of cloud and sky,

I will long remember. I will long recall.

The maple blossoming wings,

the oaks proud with rule,

The spiders deep in silk,

the squirrels fat on mast,

The fields and draws and coves

where quail and peewees call.

Earth loved more than any earth,

stand firm, hold fast;

Trees burdened with leaf and bird,

root deep, grow tall.

 

The "Board of 'Peace'"

This administration - one known for circumventing due process to execute/kill off innocent people (or people who have not been found guilty of anything) - and being friends to strongmen, dictators, fascists and other bad actors... THIS administration has unilaterally "declared" they are forming a "board of peace..." presumably initially to restore the area around Gaza destroyed by Israeli/Palestinian warring (ie, destroyed by Israel)... the Israel that this administration (and to a lesser degree, former administrations!) have been allies with. They have no plans other than grandly announcing they are the "best" board ever, the "most historically important group" ever, "never before has there been anything like it!" According to the grifter/felon in charge.

The Felon announced unilaterally that the US would contribute $10 billion to a "fund" to do the work of this "board." Congress has not approved or been consulted, it would appear. It remains dubious to me that the president can just declare and grab such funding from the taxpayers unilaterally. He's inviting other nations to join in by also contributing billions to this "fund." More on that later.

The chief administrator for this "board of peace..."? The president has declared that HE will be the one managing this operation. Other administrators on this board include his son-in-law and other Felon loyalists. NO one else from other nations, at least at this point.

Who will manage the tens of billions that are allegedly being raised? Well, let's see... I guess that would be the administrator, and WHO was that again? Oh, yes, the Felon who has been convicted of corruption and money mismanagement, who has a history of no transparency of his funds, who has a history of going bankrupt or suing people when his money traps have skirted the law... THAT corrupt man will be placed in charge of administrating tens of BILLIONS of dollars (HUNDREDS of billions??)

So, who HAS joined this dictatorial "board of 'peace'..."? The "founding members" of this "board of 'peace'..." are:

Argentina, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bulgaria, Egypt, El Salvador, Hungary, Indonesia, Israel, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Mongolia, Morocco, Pakistan, Paraguay, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, and Vietnam.

Oh! And, what's that? These nations are by and large, all anti-democratic, authoritarian or authoritarian-leaning nations with bad human rights records? Who could have seen THAT coming?!

Hint: When the "bad guys" are running the "board of peace," they aren't actually interested in peace. If I've learned nothing from the comics, when a bunch of formerly (or currently) villains join forces to form a League of Villains, they are ALWAYS interested in self-enrichment and a threat to the safety of others. 

This has ALL the markings of a pyramid scheme or money laundering operation. Trump pressures a bunch of global pariahs/outliers into "funding" his "board of peace" that will be managed by, who again? Oh yeah, the Felon who has been found guilty multiple times of financial impropriety and then, the Felon or his shell corporations go "bankrupt" or "sue" people seeking accountability and the money goes "missing" or unaccounted for or just in his own pockets.

This is a scam and although it may be profitable for the villains involved, it's not a very intelligent scam and requires a level of gullibility or cultish brain-washing that is hard to imagine.

"All You Fascists," Indeed

The list of abuses, beatings, shootings, killings, false arrests, false detentions, etc, etc and additional jackbootery is long and has happened across the nation. That is hasn't happened to you or in your sight doesn't mean it isn't happening. Some examples:

Americans have been 
dragged, 
tackled, 
beaten, 
tased 
and shot by immigration agents. 
They’ve had their necks kneeled on. 
They’ve been held outside in the rain while in their underwear. 
At least three citizens were pregnant when agents detained them. 
One of those women had already had 
the door of her home blown off
while Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem watched.

About two dozen 
Americans 
have said they were held for more than a day
without being able to phone lawyers or loved ones...

While the tally is almost certainly incomplete, we found more than 170 such incidents during 
the first nine months 
of President Donald Trump’s second administration.

Among the CITIZENS detained are nearly 20 children, 
including two with cancer. 
That includes four who were held for weeks with their undocumented mother and without access to the family’s attorney...

https://lailluminator.com/2025/10/17/ice-citizens-arrest/

And those were just the US citizens and from only one source and even before ALL THIS thuggism in Minneapolis.

Are you okay with ALL of that? ANY of that?

Does it not shame you that they kidnapped US children WITH CANCER and detained them?

How do you apologists read that sort of very short list and not vomit in embarrassment in what's being done in your name and with your support?

Not enough? Need more abuses by these thugs?

Among the detentions in which allegations have not stuck, masked agents pointed a gun at, pepper sprayed and punched a young man who had filmed them searching for his relative. In another, agents knocked over and then 
tackled a 79-year-old car wash owner, 
pressing their knees into his neck and back. 
His lawyer said he was held for 12 hours and wasn’t given medical attention despite having broken ribs in the incident and having recently had heart surgery.

Piece of shit bullies and cowards.

And that was just ONE source. More...

In Oregon:

ICE has raided 
houses of worship, 
schools,
hotels, restaurants, farms, and retail stores.
 
“Communities across the state have been terrorized by masked, armed agents who are indiscriminately and aggressively harassing and kidnapping individuals at school, at work, on the streets, and in their homes,” the Immigrant Law Center of Minnesota said Thursday.
 
US Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) wrote on social media following the shootings in Portland on Thursday that “ICE has done nothing to keep our communities safer.”
 
“ICE agents are terrorizing folks in Oregon and across the country,” he added. “I’m demanding full accountability—an investigation that involves Oregon officials—and ICE to immediately end these dangerous operations in Oregon...

A pregnant Illinois woman told Newsweek she thought her life was about to end when a federal agent pointed his gun through her car window, after she honked her horn to alert people ICE was nearby,” The Marshall Project reported. 
“In another incident in Chicago, 
a combat veteran alleged in a court filing that a federal officer said 
‘bang, bang’ and ‘you’re dead, liberal’ while pointing a handgun at him.””

On the same day as Good’s killing, ICE conducted a raid at a nearby Minneapolis high school. One local resident who witnessed the raid said 
she saw “one teacher get tackled” 
as educators and other school employees tried to keep the agents 
away from students.
 
The Minneapolis Federation of Teachers accused federal agents of using tear gas—which ICE has deployed frequently in recent months.
 
The Washington Post reported in November that federal immigration officers “have thrown chemical agents out of vehicles on city streets, creating a hazard for motorists.”
 
“They have thrown tear-gas canisters near stores and schools, exposing 
children, pregnant women, and older people to the noxious gas,”
the newspaper added. “And on numerous occasions federal officers have fired pepper balls directly at protesters—in one case, 
striking a pastor in the head.”

https://www.eastcountymagazine.org/%E2%80%98reign-terror%E2%80%99-ice-builds-appalling-record-killings-beatings-kidnappings-and-more

Feeling proud yet?

 
Maimings, hospitalizations, false arrests, gassings, being shot point blank with "less lethal weapons," for the "crime" of protesting, verbal abuses, of course, an eye (or more?) being put out, and, of course, the killings.

“I will never see through my left eye again, not even light,” said 21-year-old protester Kaden Rummler, in a statement to the Associated Press. “I’m just glad I’m alive to tell my story.”

Rummler was maimed by a projectile fired by a federal officer at a recent protest in Santa Ana, California the AP reported.

https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/20/us/protestors-tear-gas-pepper-balls

Look at the videos and photos, the blood, the maimings, the explosions, the gas attacks, the beatings... ALL on US cities and on predominantly peaceful protesters who, predominantly, are not the "illegal violent criminal aliens" these jackboots are allegedly after.

This is an administration that is out of control. Even THEY are having to back down and apologize for the slander and stupidly false claims they routinely made out of hand to defend the abuses of their jackboot villainous secret police force.

And you know I could go on and on detailing the NATIONAL harm and violence being waged across the US on immigrants (documented and not) and citizens. And, as repeatedly noted, more often that not, they DO NOT HAVE the warrants that they are required to have by law.

Just like the extrajudicial killings of people on boats in the ocean off of Venezuela. You can have a criminal deviant con man tell you, "Oh, trust me, they REALLY were bad guys..." and not offer ANY support for the claims and you trust him, you trust ICE, you trust the Felon's idiot enablers... and while you're trusting abusive, bad people, you're blaming peaceful protesters, pastors, children, youth, young adults, the elderly for the abuse and killings by the actual bad guys.

Blaming the victim is always a sign that you're on the wrong side of decency.

Oh, and as to the way your "heroes" are "protecting" US citizens by arresting "ALLL these violent criminals," that, too, is a damned stupid lie your con man is telling his useful idiots.

65 Percent of People Taken by ICE Had No Convictions, 
93 Percent No Violent Convictions

https://www.cato.org/blog/65-people-taken-ice-had-no-convictions-93-no-violent-convictions

Wake up.

All You Fascists Bound to Lose!

 Thank you, Rhiannon!

Thank you, Woody!

Thank you, Resistance Revival Chorus!

Good News!

I left a question at Stan's blog which I'm addressing here. I'm addressing my question AND addressing Stan's response.

Stan answered a question (well, no, he didn't) I left at his blog by saying this:

without posting your question (MY QUESTION: where is the rubric by which you can know WHICH lines are metaphorical and which aren't?) 
I will point out that I answered it in the post. 

No, Stan didn't. Not at all. It's interesting that he thinks he did and it makes me wonder what he thinks my question was.

He "preached the gospel to the poor" and we still have the poor. 
He proclaimed "the release of the captives, the recovery of sight to the blind, the freedom for the oppressed. 
He declared, 'Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing' (Luke 4:21). 
But ... Jesus lived and died and, with some exception, the poor were still there (Matt 26:11), 
the captives were still captive, 
the blind were still blind, 
and the oppressed remained oppressed." 

If you say He meant it literally (as you do), He lied. It still is not fulfilled in that sense. 
Or ... He meant it spiritually. 

You complain that the gospel that Paul gives (which he calls "the gospel of Christ") isn't "good news" for everybody, 

No, I don't. I complain that modern conservative religionists' IDEAS of what Paul preached isn't good news. And it's clearly not. It's not even bad news. It's a trainwreck of a atrocious horror story where most of humanity will be tortured for an eternity for the "crime" of being imperfect humans. Only a few (those "god" "selects") will be saved.

But for me, I do not set up Paul against Jesus. I interpret Paul's words, THROUGH Jesus' words and teachings. Now, an argument CAN be made that Paul taught a "different" Gospel than Jesus (I think STAN has even suggested this! That Jesus never got around to preaching the actual "good news" of most of humanity being eternally tortured!), but I don't think so.

Good news for the minority who were spared the everlasting torture given to their loved ones is STILL not good news, even for the few who were "spared."

but your version of a "social gospel" isn't either 
since all those categories of people are still suffering and it's not good news to anyone who isn't suffering. 
Or ... the gospel isn't merely the physical reality of suffering, but an actual remedy for spiritual suffering available to all.

This is the problem with a limited imagination and binary/ONLY TWO POSSIBLE WAYS approach to studying texts and philosophy. WHO SAYS, we're only limited to those two options? Jesus never said, "I came to preach good news to the poor and marginalized AND THE ONLY WAY I CAN DO SO IS BY "FIXING" ALL THE POOR AND MARGINALIZED. GIVING MONEY TO THE POOR, HEALING ALL THE SICK, ETC!!!" That isn't what Jesus said, but Stan is trying to make that case. It's not what Jesus said and it's not what I'm saying.

Jesus said he'd come to preach good news to the poor and marginalized.
THEN, Jesus began going out visiting with, welcoming, including, helping, associating with, healing the poor and marginalized.
THEN, John the Baptist asked Jesus, How do I know you're the One? And Jesus responded by saying, "Look, I'm going around, hanging out with the poor and marginalized, preaching good news TO THEM and healing them."
THEN, Jesus taught his disciples to do the same thing. Hang out with the poor and marginalized, heal them, teach them the good news that was FOR them.
etc.

Now, it can be very difficult for the privileged and wealthy to understand how "hanging out with, welcoming, accepting, being friends with those dirty outsiders and their sick illnesses and gross selves" is good news to the poor and marginalized. BUT, it is, even if they don't understand it. For the poor and marginalized, being welcomed, accepted, loved and included as part of a greater beloved community, that IS INCREDIBLE good news. Literal good news.

And for most of humanity, we recognize that magical, unlikely healings of normal serious illnesses and oppressions and poverty just don't generally happen. And it's not even the most important thing. Consider: I work daily with people with disabilities (and less regularly, with the impoverished and immigrants) and for them, their most serious disability (at least, many would say this) is NOT that they can't use their legs or eyes. It's being excluded, marginalized, impoverished, kept OUT.

That is an imposed disability that causes real harm and damage in ways that their physical disabilities just don't cause.

The miracle of Jesus' good news is not magical healings for everyone - that just doesn't happen in an imperfect world and no one - not even conservative religionists - is making that claim. And, after all, we're ALL at best only temporarily or partially healthy, with a perfect body, not needing glasses or canes or hearing aids or a therapist. Physical disabilities can be a pain, but we all got our things, sooner or later. NO, the greatest disabling condition is not being included, not being welcomed, or, at best, being included grudgingly, "because Mom told us to invite you to our birthday party..."

The good news that Jesus brought to the poor and marginalized was the good news of love, of welcome and inclusion and acceptance. THIS, we can see clearly in who Jesus spent his time with, loving, laughing with, partying with, embracing.

THAT is deeply good news. Here, now. There, then.

Jesus didn't promise magical healings and banks full of money. Jesus promised love, acceptance, welcome... a beloved community.

Good news indeed. AND, it's good news because it's actionable. It CAN and DOES happen. We see it all the time, we who are of the Beloved Community. God's realm come, God's will be done, HERE, on earth, as it is in heaven.

THERE is the good news! And what amazing, empowering, life-altering good news. It doesn't require that we repent in just the right way or understand some human religious traditions and theories just the right way. It doesn't require a human or animal sacrifice (which was always just a metaphor, right?) It just requires an embrace of grace and love and welcome. And not even a perfectly lived out embrace of grace. But an acceptance of that Way.

Further, this good news was not a one off. It was designed to be systemic. It was a new and better Way. And that was the Way of those who followed Jesus, of the church. We see this right away in the book of Acts and the "birth" of the church - followers of this Way of Good news of love and inclusion for the poor and marginalized. The more fully we follow in Jesus' steps - as a group, deliberately, lovingly, joyfully, systematically, the MORE that it truly will be good news for ALL the poor and marginalized... or at least, it's good news for the poor and marginalized to the degree it's embraced. One person - even one son of God in human form - can only befriend, welcome and love so many people. BUT, a whole new way? A systemic embrace of love and grace? That's where we can do, as Jesus said, " Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these!"

To be clear, the passage there in John does not spell that out in so many words, but it's just an obvious truth. Many can do more than one. Many doing good and kind things can do more than one doing good and kind things.

As to Stan's complaint that "and it's not good news to anyone who isn't suffering." again, Stan is missing my point and, I think, the point of Jesus. Jesus quite literally WELCOMED the rich man to join them. "Sell your stuff, give it to the poor and follow me..." Jesus was not - I am not - excluding anyone. But the starting point is that it's good news for the poor and marginalized. THEY are the ones this realm is specifically for, as Jesus literally said. Others are invited to join in, but it's a joining with, allying with, being friends with the poor that they're joining. And in some senses, one needs to leave that wealth behind, at the very least, leave behind the love of money, which is the root of all kinds of evil.

And why is that? Well, we can see in the real world that the wealthy have things go their way, all the time. It's one of the trappings of wealth... you become privileged and it's hard not to live into that privilege. I think all of us who are at least middle class in this hyper-wealthy nation can recognize that to some degree. And so, without it being a Beloved Community specifically for the poor and marginalized, the wealthy and powerful inevitably have things bend their way. But we are arguing for a better moral arc of the universe, one that bends towards justice.

And the question I asked that led me down that road? What is your Rubric, Stan, where you can perfectly understand which lines are metaphorical and which are literal? There was no answer to that question. And even if he thinks, "it's in the text... we can understand which lines are literal and which figurative by reading the texts..." Well, Stan and I (et al) ARE reading the texts and we're reaching opposite conclusions, sometimes. So, where is the rubric to decide that for us?

If one lives in a gospel of bad news for vastly most people, where understanding and accepting the RIGHT way and repenting the RIGHT way which requires a pretty perfect understanding of the texts in question, well, they simply have no rubric to ever fully decide the right orthodoxy.

The rest of us live in a welcoming beloved community of grace, where a rubric is not necessary. 

An Open Letter to Senator Rand Paul

An Open Letter to Senator Rand Paul:

(Short version: You KNOW this administration is a threat: Switch parties and become a Democrat.)

Dear Senator Paul,

Become a Democrat.

I know that is a hard pill to swallow. You are not a Democrat. You are certainly opposed to a wide swath of the values and positions of the Democrat Party. (And yet, as someone who professes to be more libertarian in nature, there surely is some level of cross-over and common ground.) Nonetheless, I understand that you probably can not imagine voting with the Democrats AS a Democrat.

And yet, I think you fully recognize how dangerous this administration is... how out of control this particular version of the GOP - the MAGOP - is. I think you know that today's GOP is fully owned by the current president AND I think you know that this current president is not just a bad president and a bad human (although, he certainly is and will go down in history as one of our worst presidents), but he is a dangerous president. I think you recognize that the MAGOP is a threat to our free Republic and a danger to the world.

Hard times call for hard actions.

Become a Democrat.

This administration has threatened to invade and "take" other allied nations - Canada and Greenland - even invoking a military action to do so.

This administration is committing extra-judicial killings in the waters off of Venezuela, with no due process.

This administration is sending US troops to terrorize and cause harm to US citizens in our own country. His people have falsely arrested US citizens and legal residents, they've shot at us with "less-lethal" firearms and explosives and they've even killed us. They're bypassing due process in the US, as well as out at sea.

And I think you know that this administration is historically unethical, corrupt and indecent in a wide swath of actions and policies.

As a medical man, I'd be surprised if you thought that this president is mentally stable. He's clearly not. He's a sick, abusive, corrupt man who needs help, NOT to be in charge of this great nation.

This administration is undoing whatever greatness there may once have been in our country and I think you know that.

We certainly need to elect more Democrats and remove more GOP representatives and I think many rational, moral conservatives agree. But these are hard times, made dangerous by an out of control administration that is not being constrained by the rational part of the GOP. I think you know that. And so, in the meantime, if we can get moral, reasonable conservatives who are already in public office to take this kind of stand - Become a Democrat - we can start the work to save our nation. I think you know something radical needs to be done. This is that step (one of many needed).

Take that stand. Become a Democrat.

You Got to Watch What You're Doing

In the news, regarding protesters at a church service due to ICE connections:

" A Sunday morning church service in the Twin Cities interrupted by anti-Immigration and Customs Enforcement protesters is the latest flash point in escalating tensions between the Trump administration and demonstrators in Minnesota.

Assistant Attorney General Harmeet Dhillon, who oversees the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice, announced an investigation within hours, calling the protesters’ actions “desecrating a house of worship and interfering with Christian worshippers.” "

These protesters better be careful. It's this kinda shit that got Jesus killed.

"On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple courts and

began driving out those who were buying and selling there.

He overturned the tables of the money changers

and the benches of those selling doves*, and

would not allow anyone to carry merchandise

through the temple courts.

And as he taught them, he said, “Is it not written: ‘My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations’? But you have made it ‘a den of robbers.’”

The chief priests and the teachers of the law heard this and BEGAN LOOKING FOR A WAY TO KILL HIM,

for they feared him,

because the whole crowd was amazed at his teaching."

*NOTE: The gospel ("good news for the poor and marginalized") writer specifically notes that Jesus picked specifically the benches selling doves. THE "dove offering" was the offering that the poorest people offered at the temple. Wealthier folks offered goats, etc. What happened, I've read, is that the poor people would bring their own meager doves to offer as a sacrifice - which was required by the religious leaders for them to be "right" with God - and the "inspectors" at the temple (the merchants) would say, "Oh wait, YOUR dove doesn't meet minimum requirements required by GOD. You'll have to buy one of OURS."

It was a scam fleecing specifically the poor (and others). THIS is what outraged Jesus so. THIS is what led to Jesus' execution by the state.