The difference between "loving everyone" and being quiet in the face of false charges, attacks and vilification...
I know that I sometimes come across as strident in discussions with my more conservative neighbors. I stand strongly for some points and strongly against some points and use harsh words sometimes to describe what I believe to be harmful points.
Why not get along? I hear regularly.
And getting along is vital and important and by and large, I strive for that.
But here is an example of where, it seems to me, we need to “get along” and where and when we need to draw lines and speak out:
A more conservative friend recently posted that great meme that says something like, “Love your neighbor who doesn't... Look like you; Think like you; Speak like you; Pray like you; Vote like you... Love your neighbor. No exceptions.”
Excellent point and of course, I agreed and I said so.
But then, someone (let's say, Ralph) added in a comment below that, “Ah, but it's not plausible with Muslims because they are required to assimilate or annihilate all non-believers...”
Now, I'm getting along with everyone. Loving everyone. Loving the Muslims this person mentioned and loving the man who's probably Christian who made that comment.
BUT, here's the line: When christian Ralph made that claim (which is, of course, a false claim), because I love Muslims, I need to speak out and point out that the claim is a false one. And given the minority and sometimes harassed status of Muslims here in the US, it is a potentially harmful false claim, as it demonizes a group that are at risk of being targets for oppression/harm.
Because I love Muslims, as well as other believers and non-believers, it is important to speak out.
It's not enough to “live and let live...” To say, “Oh, Ralph! He just says stuff like that and I kinda disagree... but I'll be quiet because I don't want to confront him...” It's not enough to quietly ignore the false and potentially harmful claim because to do so is to help allow an oppressive foothold to take hold.
I pointed out, politely, that the claim was, of course, false. I politely noted that passing on false claims is not helpful in the cause of Loving Everyone, which was the point of the post.
Ralph responded by saying “YOU HAVE NO FREAKING CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT...” He then cited a video by “Dr David Woods, PhD in Philosophy of Religion” as “proof” that I was wrong and his claim was factual.
I watched the video and I tried to discover what Woods' expertise is in Islam. There's not much out there about Woods except what he claims. He claims to be an expert in Islam, saying he's read some ancient Islamic writings and quotes the Quran. He claims to have this PhD from a reputable college.
However, there are no books by Wood, no peer-reviewed articles that I could find. Nothing I could find to even validate his studies or his PhD. Just his claims. Oh, and by the way, he is a very conservative Christian.
Now, could Wood be an actual expert in Islam... or could he at least have studied Islam some? Sure, it's possible. But when he talks in his videos (most of his “work” I could find consisted of his videos harshly criticizing Islam and Atheists), he does not present as scholarly. He presents as bigoted and arrogant... as if HE is in a better place to say what “true Muslims” believe, because he read several books and the Quran... perhaps even read them multiple times.
But then, I've also read actual Muslim scholars (which includes Muslim scholars, as well as former Muslims who are informed about Islam and able to critique it from a place of expertise, as well as Christian scholars who are actually familiar with Islamic writings and traditions... people with some credentials beyond their claims of expertise) and know that, of course, as with all religions, there are a range of beliefs in Islam and that no one group within Islam can speak as the authoritative deciders for what is and isn't “true Islam...”
And then, I had Wood and his claims of his expertise on Islam, and I had Ralph, who thought Wood's video was sufficient “evidence” to “prove” that I was wrong and had “NO FREAKING CLUE...”
So, returning to the idea of loving everyone, which would include speaking out in defenses of a group or the Other that is being attacked or slandered, I made a polite follow up comment, saying that I watched Wood's video and was not impressed and that there are other experts out there with whom I am more familiar and find more credible. And I asked the question, “Why is this one conservative Christian the right 'expert' to rely upon over and against all the other experts and scholars I am more familiar with?”
Ralph's response was, “You're a f****-ing idiot! Dr David Wood... is as much an expert on Islam as exists on this planet.”
That was helpful. But why? Why is he a trusted expert? Why does his opinion outweigh all other opinions? And, really, a leading expert on Islam “as exists on this planet...”?
No answers from Ralph.
Of course, we can see that Ralph was getting very emotionally distraught and not responding to correct his false claims, nor responding to reasonable questions, nor acknowledging the existence of other Muslim scholars who disagree with Woods and Ralph, and that Ralph was responding with ad hom attacks instead of reasonable dialogue. Which is fine, he's free to do so.
But the point is, the person who made the post about Loving everyone, even those who disagree with you, is one who often finds my comments divisive and arrogant (or so he says). And yet, in this lovely post about loving everyone, even those you disagree with, he remained silent in the face of the false claim about Muslims and the personal attacks on me.
And again, I don't care about the ad hom attacks, that's not the point.
The point is that it is not divisive to point out a potentially harmful false claim. We owe it to our neighbors who are being vilified to correct false claims... especially if they are part of a potentially harassed minority, which in our circumstances, Muslims are.
By pointing out the false claim, I was not failing to love my neighbor with whom I disagree... I was siding with my (in this case) Muslim neighbors (with whom I disagree on points, to be sure), defending them against a false claim. And, truly, I was also loving my neighbor, Ralph, with whom I disagree, because he hopefully wouldn't want to pass on false claims that are potentially harmful.
So, yes, let's love our neighbors with whom we disagree. But part of that is not being silent when one neighbor falsely or unjustly attacks another neighbor. Being quiet in deference to the neighbor that perhaps I share more in common when they attack a minority, harassed neighbor is not “loving our neighbors. No exceptions.”
I know that I sometimes come across as strident in discussions with my more conservative neighbors. I stand strongly for some points and strongly against some points and use harsh words sometimes to describe what I believe to be harmful points.
Why not get along? I hear regularly.
And getting along is vital and important and by and large, I strive for that.
But here is an example of where, it seems to me, we need to “get along” and where and when we need to draw lines and speak out:
A more conservative friend recently posted that great meme that says something like, “Love your neighbor who doesn't... Look like you; Think like you; Speak like you; Pray like you; Vote like you... Love your neighbor. No exceptions.”
Excellent point and of course, I agreed and I said so.
But then, someone (let's say, Ralph) added in a comment below that, “Ah, but it's not plausible with Muslims because they are required to assimilate or annihilate all non-believers...”
Now, I'm getting along with everyone. Loving everyone. Loving the Muslims this person mentioned and loving the man who's probably Christian who made that comment.
BUT, here's the line: When christian Ralph made that claim (which is, of course, a false claim), because I love Muslims, I need to speak out and point out that the claim is a false one. And given the minority and sometimes harassed status of Muslims here in the US, it is a potentially harmful false claim, as it demonizes a group that are at risk of being targets for oppression/harm.
Because I love Muslims, as well as other believers and non-believers, it is important to speak out.
It's not enough to “live and let live...” To say, “Oh, Ralph! He just says stuff like that and I kinda disagree... but I'll be quiet because I don't want to confront him...” It's not enough to quietly ignore the false and potentially harmful claim because to do so is to help allow an oppressive foothold to take hold.
I pointed out, politely, that the claim was, of course, false. I politely noted that passing on false claims is not helpful in the cause of Loving Everyone, which was the point of the post.
Ralph responded by saying “YOU HAVE NO FREAKING CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT...” He then cited a video by “Dr David Woods, PhD in Philosophy of Religion” as “proof” that I was wrong and his claim was factual.
I watched the video and I tried to discover what Woods' expertise is in Islam. There's not much out there about Woods except what he claims. He claims to be an expert in Islam, saying he's read some ancient Islamic writings and quotes the Quran. He claims to have this PhD from a reputable college.
However, there are no books by Wood, no peer-reviewed articles that I could find. Nothing I could find to even validate his studies or his PhD. Just his claims. Oh, and by the way, he is a very conservative Christian.
Now, could Wood be an actual expert in Islam... or could he at least have studied Islam some? Sure, it's possible. But when he talks in his videos (most of his “work” I could find consisted of his videos harshly criticizing Islam and Atheists), he does not present as scholarly. He presents as bigoted and arrogant... as if HE is in a better place to say what “true Muslims” believe, because he read several books and the Quran... perhaps even read them multiple times.
But then, I've also read actual Muslim scholars (which includes Muslim scholars, as well as former Muslims who are informed about Islam and able to critique it from a place of expertise, as well as Christian scholars who are actually familiar with Islamic writings and traditions... people with some credentials beyond their claims of expertise) and know that, of course, as with all religions, there are a range of beliefs in Islam and that no one group within Islam can speak as the authoritative deciders for what is and isn't “true Islam...”
And then, I had Wood and his claims of his expertise on Islam, and I had Ralph, who thought Wood's video was sufficient “evidence” to “prove” that I was wrong and had “NO FREAKING CLUE...”
So, returning to the idea of loving everyone, which would include speaking out in defenses of a group or the Other that is being attacked or slandered, I made a polite follow up comment, saying that I watched Wood's video and was not impressed and that there are other experts out there with whom I am more familiar and find more credible. And I asked the question, “Why is this one conservative Christian the right 'expert' to rely upon over and against all the other experts and scholars I am more familiar with?”
Ralph's response was, “You're a f****-ing idiot! Dr David Wood... is as much an expert on Islam as exists on this planet.”
That was helpful. But why? Why is he a trusted expert? Why does his opinion outweigh all other opinions? And, really, a leading expert on Islam “as exists on this planet...”?
No answers from Ralph.
Of course, we can see that Ralph was getting very emotionally distraught and not responding to correct his false claims, nor responding to reasonable questions, nor acknowledging the existence of other Muslim scholars who disagree with Woods and Ralph, and that Ralph was responding with ad hom attacks instead of reasonable dialogue. Which is fine, he's free to do so.
But the point is, the person who made the post about Loving everyone, even those who disagree with you, is one who often finds my comments divisive and arrogant (or so he says). And yet, in this lovely post about loving everyone, even those you disagree with, he remained silent in the face of the false claim about Muslims and the personal attacks on me.
And again, I don't care about the ad hom attacks, that's not the point.
The point is that it is not divisive to point out a potentially harmful false claim. We owe it to our neighbors who are being vilified to correct false claims... especially if they are part of a potentially harassed minority, which in our circumstances, Muslims are.
By pointing out the false claim, I was not failing to love my neighbor with whom I disagree... I was siding with my (in this case) Muslim neighbors (with whom I disagree on points, to be sure), defending them against a false claim. And, truly, I was also loving my neighbor, Ralph, with whom I disagree, because he hopefully wouldn't want to pass on false claims that are potentially harmful.
So, yes, let's love our neighbors with whom we disagree. But part of that is not being silent when one neighbor falsely or unjustly attacks another neighbor. Being quiet in deference to the neighbor that perhaps I share more in common when they attack a minority, harassed neighbor is not “loving our neighbors. No exceptions.”
13 comments:
Math tells us (sorry, the Bible doesn’t speak on it) tells us two incontrovertible things:
1. The more guns in a region, the more deaths.
2. The more comprehensive regulation of guns, fewer deaths.
Marshal has been shown this a dozen times by me alone. He hasn’t changed: the clear inference is that he loves brutality. Prejudice is an emotional commitment to ignorance.
This is the sole reason reason labels him a liar, thereby the sole reason he blocks me. He cannot face himself.
Police: Protect and Serve
Craig: nah, all you guys do is mop up.
___
Craig: I’m going to point something out. We know for a fact people use firearms to prevent of defend themselves from crimes, it’s unarguable.
Not true. In NY, people defend themselves with words and, when necessary, fists. In Craig’s world, since people don’t aren’t too good with words and are fundamentally cowards, guns take the place of guts.
“An Ohio man who allegedly told Capitol Police he was proud of a Facebook post suggesting New York Democratic Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez “should be shot” was arrested at his Toledo residence Thursday. Timothy James Ireland Jr., 41, was charged in U.S. District Court in Toledo with one count of being a felon in possession of a firearm, one count of being a fugitive in possession of a firearm and one count of making interstate threats.”
“Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s campaign is under fire for sharing a photo of a tombstone bearing a left-leaning opponent’s name.”
Posted hours after the El Paso shooting.
Marshal two days ago at Stan's blog: Maybe one day he'll send the plan. I thought with recent events we might see it (not really...he has no plan).
Craig, yesterday: Feo, posted his list of talking points again.
Marshal: He'll never provide his complete "plan"
Marshal: I just looked at Dan's blog... and saw feo's list. I'll have to peruse it for sure.... what he's posted seems smaller than what he's been saying he's provided us
Marshal and Craig just outed themselves as determined liars and corrupt Christians.
Dan, if you look at Marshal's lates post's comments you'll see two lying, corrupt Christians examining a plan they say isn't a plan and criticizing it without the guts to take on responses from the person who gave it to them while they keep saying he never did.
Their open lying should be clear to them. That it's not makes clear their moral corruption.
[Sorry, Dan, but I'm counting on you to keep this open reply to an not-open post of Craig's addressed to me but which blocks my participation:]
Fuck you, Craig. You and Marshal have had the plan for months. You wanted it but you two couldn't get it together and so refused to put the plan up on your blogs. You both have such a need to deny how ignorant and fearful you are that you both have dedicated yourselves to lies.
LIe 1. You never got it - but you've gotten it four times.
Lie 2. It's not a plan - it may not be a perfect plan but fuck you, what is a perfect plan?
Lie 3. There are no details - but you're already arguing with the details: See Marshal's blog.
Lie 4. It's up to me do anything - it's up to you and the other shallow fake to post the plan. Then we can hash out issues. Take care of your shit and stop being a deceitful coward.
Where's your plan? Oh, that's right. Your brilliant plan is more guns in more hands.
And what does ALL the research and all the data and all the math in the us and around the world say about more guns?
IN EVERY STUDY: THE MORE GUNS THE MORE DEATHS.
You have a whole hell of a lot of work to do to be a Christian who loves the living.
[Thnks, Dan, for your ever kind forbearance.]
Open and last comment to Marshal and Craig:
Marshal in the face of strong, reasoned opposition, you've turned into a corrupt Christian many years ago. Craig, you followed him in recent years. You both block data. You block facts. You even block definitions. You utilize fake, untrained, uneducated sources of information providers who really only provide cant.
You brutalize the living.
1. All commendable research has long shown us that most effective way to drastically reduce abortions are the provision of condoms, contraceptives, full and early sex education, full provision of affordable women's healthcare, and female empowerment.
2. All commendable research has long shown that the more guns, the more gun deaths.
3. My gun violence reduction plan presents a slate of policies. Take the top ten and put them all into effect in one multi-state region of the US. People will still own guns. Gun deaths will drop dramatically.
4. You said you blocked me because you did not get a plan (and Craig wanted "details'). Yet, you' have both been writing about my plan for months, and objecting to some details. You may not like it; you may think you have points that oppose some of it. But that wasn't why you blocked me.
You lied.
This is simply what has happened to half of America's white population. You and people like you are so fragile, that when confronted with the growing consciousness of how America's past and present policies have inherent racist and misogynist and bigoted force, AND that that past and present are deeply shapes by white, western, slave trade economy-based Christianity (of which we should truly repent and repair), you have regressed into an reasoning platform and argument-making process dependent upon an internal system of denial, dodge, prevarication, myth-making and irrational defense.
Having crossed that line for such a long time and with such thorough consistency, your abdication from your 'professed' faith has releases me from the obligation to honor you with respect. Until you repent and repair, and win it back.
"Marshal in the face of strong, reasoned opposition, you've turned into a corrupt Christian many years ago."
Sez you...a totally corrupt and false Christian.
"You both block data. You block facts. You even block definitions. You utilize fake, untrained, uneducated sources of information providers who really only provide cant."
Sez you...who provides very little except arrogant condescension. We block nothing but a low character fool who has abused his welcome.
"You brutalize the living."
Sez you...who supports the murder of the unborn and the behavior of the sexually immoral, which leads to all manner of disease and mental/emotional distress and the abuses that go with it.
Gotta go. More later if this stands.
And with the same, stubborn will to stupidity, you repeatedly and thrillingly love to misspell, says. Typical of the will to deny reality.
"who supports the murder of the unborn and the behavior of the sexually immoral"
T'would be a lie.
All studies, which you ignore, use data, facts, and definitions to reveal that THE BEST way to reduce abortions and sexual promiscuity is to supply contraceptives to all interested, conduct full information sex education, and provide full ob/gyn healthcare services for women. This is true in the US. This is true in Africa. This is true in Europe. This is true in Asia. This is true in the rest of the Americas, and in Oceania.
Thus, as a member of white male supremacy trying to block policies for full and affordable services of the above... you brutalize the living.
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