Studying history begins
for me, today
with a long look at
the water running
in no particular hurry
in the stream next to me.
It is, I realize,
the same water my grandmother drank
and boiled her snap beans in
It is the same water we crossed to escape torture
and the same water they drowned us in
before we escaped.
It is the Water that gathered all in one place
and separated the Dry Land from the Dry Land
It is the Water over which the Spirit hovered
and within which life began.
And so, I went down to the river to pray.
Down by the riverside.
Where we laid down our sword and shield
where we hung our harps and wept
bleeding history from our face
for the captors demanded we sing a song
of Zion
of Home
of Sanctuary
and there was
no
Sanctuary.
And so, studying history,
I remembered and recalled and imagined
and I built an ark
a boat bound for the promised land
over Jordan's stormy banks
beyond the muddy waters of the Ohio
across the Rio Grande
and like the stream beside me
I sang a song
a song
of Water
and of History
and of that first pair of centipedes that
crawled out of the water
and made a home for the rest of us
and waited for Paradise.
28 comments:
The same water from which the Trabue family slaves fetched their water?
Indeed. Exactly the same.
Dan
"for the captors demanded we sing a song
of Zion
of Home
of Sanctuary
and there was
no
Sanctuary."
In some part of my Virginia/Kentucky family, we were, indeed, precisely the captors.
In other parts of my Huguenot/France , we were the oppressed.
Well done in catching the meaning.
Dan
"In some part of my Virginia/Kentucky family, we were, indeed, precisely the captors.
In other parts of my Huguenot/France , we were the oppressed."
YOU are not "we" in either of those groups.
It's poetry. Written in the voice of I/we who have been oppressed.
And thus, at least metaphorically, we in the Trabue family line HAVE been both the oppressors and the oppressed.
Imagery, metaphor, figurative language. Embrace grace.
(Which is, itself, speaking figuratively.)
Dan
I hesitate to ask, but what point are you trying to make? Do you think I'm saying that I, Dan Trabue, was literally drowned trying to escape oppression?
I am not saying that.
Is it that you fear or worry about pointing to actual oppression that has happened historically? If so, why?
Dan
This obsession you have with "historical oppression" is a ruse. It's to compel focus on that which doesn't matter so as to perpetuate lies and falsehoods in favor of those undeserving. In the meantime, you promote true oppression of people in utero...the most heinous example of oppression you support, defend, celebrate and enable.
As to your "poetry", to say "we" when you've not in the least suffered...as if you're somehow a victim by virtue of being a blood relation to those long dead...is abhorrent and insulting to those who actually suffered.
--Art
Thank you for your lovely and insightful poetry review, darling. Still, people have been oppressed throughout all of history and many reasonable people think it's important to recognize that oppression and the way that some families have benefited from those oppressions and some families have suffered.
I'm no victim. But because it's important still today, I remember the oppression - specifically the religious oppression by religious extremists - and if you don't like it, well, that's okay.
For those who take the Bible fairly seriously, it might be worthwhile to remember what God is recorded as having said:
"In the future your children will ask you,”What is the meaning of these laws, decrees, and regulations that the Lord our God has commanded us to obey?” Then you must tell them, “We were Pharaoh’s slaves in Egypt, but the Lord brought us out of Egypt with God's own strong hand.”
https://www.theartoftaleh.com/once-you-were-slaves-remembrance-and-the-struggle-against-racism/
Silly ol' God, telling people who are not enslaved to remember that their families WERE once enslaved. Why don't you do a post on your own blog sometime about how the authors of the OT were silly to keep remembering their families were once enslaved. Why don't you tell God what a silly idea. Tell God that it's abhorrent and insulting to those who actually suffered.
Oh, and in the Bible stories, WHY did God so often remind the people of how their families were oppressed in the past? In part, to remember God's salvation, but also in part to remind them not to oppress others. I guess that whole idea is abhorrent, too?
Call me crazy, I think it's valid to remember actual history.
"When you harvest the grapes in your vineyard, do not go over the vines again.
Leave what remains for the foreigner, the fatherless and the widow.
Remember that you were slaves in Egypt.
THAT is why I command you to do this."
~God
The Pharisees objected to be referred to as slaves and Jesus rebukes them. Silly Jesus!
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and
have never been slaves of anyone.
How can you say that we shall be set free?”
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
Jesus, speaking all metaphorically and stuff. How abhorrent. Those pharisees were right! They were NEVER enslaved! Jesus was insulting actual slaves by using that metaphor.
Perhaps he just doesn't understand the TRUE meaning of poetry, either, not like Marshal does. "Be graceless and literal and don't ever try to recall oppression!" THAT is the true meaning of poetry. Oh, if only Jesus had a Marshal around to help him be a better poet!
Silly ol' Jesus.
Another OT reminder:
Do not deprive the foreigner or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge.
Remember that you were slaves in Egypt
and the Lord your God redeemed you from there.
That is why I command you to do this.
When you are harvesting in your field and you overlook a sheaf,
do not go back to get it.
Leave it for the foreigner, the fatherless and the widow,
so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.
and
you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, the Levites in your towns, and the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows living among you.
Remember that you were slaves in Egypt, and follow carefully these decrees.
Celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles for seven days after you have gathered the produce of your threshing floor and your winepress.
Be joyful at your festival—you, your sons and daughters,
your male and female servants, and the Levites,
the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns.
“This obsession you have with ‘historical oppression’ is a ruse.”
Denial of oppression is brutalizing. All decent people must fight it. Because it breeds. Marshal breeds brutality. All these thugs breed brutality.
It is an obvious part of the American DNA. The thugs need to deny it because they are morally corrupt.
So the obsession is with the health and welfare of our society. Ie, patriotism.
Wow. Aren't you pleased with yourself!
Jesus was referring to the enslavement of which you now pretend you are NOT a part...your enslavement to sin. He wasn't referring to their ancestors being enslaved in Egypt.
And while God reminds His people to not do what Egypt did to their ancestors, and while some speak of their people having been enslaved, I don't buy that you're doing the same when you say "we" in your poem. Don't forget. I'm not a lefty. I don't buy in to your lefty nonsense. You aren't worthy of paralleling yourself to any of those you try to pretend you're emulating. You ARE, however, very much like those Pharisees Christ rebuked as slaves to sin. VERY much so.
Well, you are certainly free to imagine all manner of things you think I intend in my poem. Or you can just ask me. I think the latter is the most rational way to understand my actual intent.
Dan
If you have nothing substantive to offer beyond your little poetry review, I invite you to move on. We get it. You think I'm a bad and dishonest man who writes bad poetry. Duly noted. Move on.
Just to spell out in more detail, my reasoning in this poem includes...
1. Literal water is foundational to who we are, our history, our health, our suffering and our human rights;
2. Likewise, literally and figuratively, creation and life, health and well-being has always begun with water;
3. My family, and probably most families, have vital water connections in our history. My Huguenot ancestors escaped religious persecution sneaking away from Montauban on the river Tarn. We are not unique that way;
4. The City where I live exists in this location due to the Falls of the Ohio, forcing flatboats to shore. The convergence of the Ohio River and Beargrass Creek made for a safe haven;
5. Biblically, the oppressed Israelites laid down their harps by the river, and could not sing, due to their oppression;
6. And on it goes, our history of oppressed people seeking justice and human rights continually returns to those waterways which figuratively and literally birth us and give us hope for life and justice;
...like that. Do you have anything positive to say on topic?
Dan
I'm positively convinced you're pure evil.
[rolls eyes]
So, to reiterate:
* This is a poem.
* This is a poem where I speak to the literal and metaphorical notions of how foundational water and waterways are to human life and history.
* This is a poem where I remember my own family's literal escape (in the 1600s) on the River Tarn in Montauban, France, where they had to sneak away to keep from being literally executed by the Catholic Church in France.
* This is a poem where I reference the literal ways that people (women accused of witchcraft, slaves being killed en route to places where they would be enslaved, etc) have been killed in/upon waters.
* These are actual historic realities.
* Of course.
* I think it is important to remember atrocities, that we may learn not to do them/allow them to happen again.
* I noted that this is seen in biblical texts and amongst other heroes of human rights.
THESE were some of my points/some elements of this post.
* Marshal somehow is convinced that I'm "pure evil."
* This is not a rational conclusion, given that I'm just saying I'm opposed to oppression, but Marshal's certainly free to have that opinion.
It's not the poem which makes you evil. It's your many evil ways, recounted numerous times over the years.
So, on the topic of THIS post, I've not said or advocated anything evil. Got it.
On the other hand, you are saying that I am "evil" and "PURE evil," to boot and have "many evil ways," in your opinion.
Those ways include/involve:
1. Disagreeing in good faith with you and yours (and my own upbringing) on some key points in the Bible...
1a. That is, you are (and I was, once upon a time) convinced that things like presuming a fairly literal Genesis were "essential" to being a good Christian. Disagreeing with that makes one perhaps more bent towards "evil," in your opinion.
2. Disagreeing with you and yours that there is nothing inherently "wrong" (or "evil," even) in being LGBTQ... any more than there is something inherently wrong with being straight or CIS-gendered. But disagreeing in good faith with you, that makes me "evil."
2a. In that case, I'm presumably evil for the "sin" of being sincerely mistaken (IF you were even right, which you presume and I don't). I'm genuinely doing what is obvious (to me and many others) the right thing in not being a jerk or cruel or unaccepting of my LGBTQ friends and family and church members.
3. Disagreeing in good faith with you about whether there should be laws telling women and physicians how to handle their pregnancies.
Disagreeing in good faith with you on matters like these, in your opinion, makes me evil. Presumably for being mistaken in good faith and thinking that ideas/principles which are (in your opinion) "bad" are good and thus, in working for what I think is clearly good, and being mistaken, THAT equals "Pure evil," in your head.
Is that fair?
If so, what if it turns out that you were mistaken on all these points. You're no doubt sincerely believing your opinions are correct, but if you're mistaken on serious points like these, would that make you "pure evil.."?
That is, is the crime of being sincerely mistaken on ideals like these sufficient to say, "Well, he's so wrong, that he's moved into the category of pure evil, and not merely mistaken..." and, when you learn you're mistaken one day, will you think it's justified to call your own self pure evil?
I certainly think you favor very bad practices and are mistaken in those practices, but I don't presume you're intentionally evil. Just deliberately blinded to obvious moral and reasonable notions. So, I guess I believe in grace more than that, to be willing to call you and yours "evil."
To each their own, I suppose.
Grace, dear beloved of God. Grace.
"Those ways include/involve:"
Crap you make up rather than actually defending against true facts I've presented consistently for years.
1. Disagreeing with the clear revelation of God's Word on a number of issues, such that you are in rebellion. These aren't points of mystery or ambiguity...no matter how much you pretend...but "there's no doubt about it" teachings you don't like.
1a. It's never been about disagreeing with these types of examples to which you default as if they were ever at issue at all. But these kinds of willful distortions and deflections constitute evidence of your evil.
2. I've been more than clear that I don't regard temptations as evidence of one's wickedness. Even the best of us...this leaves out you, but work with me...are tempted constantly to do that which displeases the One True God you only pretend to worship. No. I've always been equally clear that it's acting on those temptations to serve one's own pleasure and preference, as well as enabling such by the likes of evil people like you. THAT is evidence of evil. THAT is you in a nutshell.
In addition, there can never be anything "wrong" with being normal, though normal people...like Donald Trump, for example...can also indulge their temptations which is evil as well.
So this attempt to legitimize evil by pointing to the underlying temptation is yet again another example of your evil, as it stands as yet another intentional lie to suggest that's the point of contention.
2a. You are not in the least "sincerely mistaken". There is no doubt about God's prohibition against indulging homosexual temptations. None. There is no hint of any possibility that there is some loophole within all of Scripture which rationalizes defense of those who so indulge this temptation to engage in what God rejects as "abomination". It is as non-debatable as God's prohibition against murder or worshiping false gods (which you do by pretending God might bless what He condemns as "abomination").
It's not a matter of refusing to be cruel. It's that you lie about what constitutes cruelty to unrepentant sinners like these. Enabling them isn't being "not cruel". It's hurrying their trip to perdition. It's the most cruel thing one can do for another sinner...to enable them in their sin. Actual Christians warn against such things. You aren't an actual Christian, but are the devil's advocate for such behaviors.
3. This isn't an issue of getting between a woman and her doctor, but between a woman and her hitman. There's no legitimate reason for aborting, and aborting is never necessary as a life-saving technique. Your support for the practice consciously ignores these truths. You're evil.
"Is that fair?"
No. It's another evil corruption of the truth of the divide between us. I don't regard your disagreement with me as evil. I regard your support of evil practices and behaviors as the evil it clearly is, and you have no legitimate, intelligent or Christian argument to support your defense of the evil behaviors you celebrate, defend, support and enable.
"If so, what if it turns out that you were mistaken on all these points."
That's not possible. God is clear on the sinfulness of these behaviors. There's no equivocation but what comes from evil people like yourself.
"You're no doubt sincerely believing your opinions are correct,"
Another lie. I no doubt defend what is clearly revealed as God's Will on these issues. You rebel against God's Will on these issues. There's no way to be "sincerely mistaken" on points so plainly presented as sin in Scripture. You're a liar by suggesting there's any doubt about them.
"I certainly think you favor very bad practices and are mistaken in those practices, but I don't presume you're intentionally evil."
You'd be wrong to do so as you are wrong in suggesting I favor any "very bad" practices. You've failed to demonstrate where I might be and your weak attempts to frame them as bad by doing the progressive thing of looking only at outcomes is essential in daring to even make such a case against me. I'm far more honest about my own sinful behaviors than you are, and what you choose to regard as "racist, misogynist, homophobia" and other false charges are not any of those things when viewed honestly...which you don't do because doing so exposes your own evil.
"So, I guess I believe in grace more than that, to be willing to call you and yours "evil.""
It's evil to posture as "gracious" for refusing to go so far as to call good evil. I don't promote, support, enable or defend evil behaviors, so you've nothing you can honestly refer to as such. You believe in lying...to me, your community, God and yourself. It's what you do. You can do no other because you're given over to your evil.
I don't regard your disagreement with me as evil. I regard your support of evil practices and behaviors as the evil it clearly is, and you have no legitimate, intelligent or Christian argument to support your defense
I get that you REALLLY think you're correct and no reasonable person can possibly, rationally, morally disagree with you. Nonetheless, that is the reality.
You think you're right on topics like these (I'm summing up what we're talking about with that phrase - topics like these, just to be clear).
I, in good faith, disagree with your opinions.
You think you can't be mistaken on these issues.
BUT, you can be mistaken... and that's not me, in good faith disagreeing, it's just observable reality. You can not prove your positions on these topics. They are your personal, human opinions, unproven and unprovable. You may think you speak for God on these issues, or that when you reach your conclusion, that it is the conclusion "god" wants for you to reach, but it's not proven and, I would argue, not reasonable, biblical or Godly.
So, the reality is, you think I'm evil because you don't think you're wrong on these topics and when I, in good faith and striving to be reasonable and moral, disagree with you, you think I've reached an evil conclusion. EVEN IF you can't prove it. It's simply, demonstrably, your personal unproven opinion.
So, thanks for expressing your opinions, even if I think they're irrational and in some cases, quite wrong and harmful to others (and to you). Disagreeing with you in good faith is not "evil." You're welcome to your opinion, but you won't be expressing them here, as I believe they cause harm to others and, as noted, to your own self.
Move on.
I don't "think" I'm right on the topics of contention. I am right, and your wussy default to "you think you're right" or "you could be wrong" isn't an argument. It's a surrender. You're wrong because you reject that which is crystal clear. There's no "well, that's your opinion, man". You're wrong and all your bullshit, childish, petulant attempts to legitimize the illegitimate doesn't get it done.
So keep on pretending. Good luck with that. When you have an actual argument to defend your vile corruption as "Godly" or "Biblical", I'm here for ya.
And for the record, as it's just another fact for which you have no evidence to the contrary, stating the truth is not causing harm in any way to any one. That's just another lie you like to tell to deny the truth from being told, because you embrace evil.
Marshal, if ever brought face to face with Louisiana poverty and malnourished children, would help pay for displaying the Ten Commandments in every classroom. But not breakfast for every student.
Being absolutely right in brutalizing ways is exactly what Jesus opposed with condemnations to the face of Pharisees, Sadducees, and the Sanhedrin throughout the gospels and aggressive action in the Temple.
Marshal denies the love commandment. Marshal denies the Christian life of helping the least of us. Marshal thinks he’s exempt from the human vision that sees as if through a dark glass.
Marshal is the poster baby for Christianist White Supremacy. The work is the anti-Christ.
So, finally then, on this post, which is about the centrality of water to human life and development, and about how people have long escaped, suffered through and dealt with oppression (a post which you apparently find no "pure evil"), you are choosing to insist that you "know" you are right on some of these other topics, not directly related to this topic of this post.
You can't objectively prove any of them, but you feel in your heart that you, personally, "know" you are correct.
I'm letting you know that it is objectively NOT an opinion, but a demonstrable fact that you don't objectively know these opinions you hold are objectively true and factual. If you could objectively prove them, you would.
So, whatever you may think about my poetry or the topic of this post, you just don't objectively know these other ideas and theories that you hold. That's just the reality of it all.
IF you want to try to objectively prove these unproven hunches/opinions of yours, feel free to do so on your blog. It's off topic here.
Move on, sir.
Once again, being the liar you are, you assert I've never proven my positions as the facts and truths they are. This is how you operate. You simply assert and VOILA! it's a fact. I have objectively proven every position I've put forth as true. You simply respond in typical childish fashion with "Nyuh uh!".
Marshal, as always, it is not sufficient to say, "I've already proven objectively that my (unproven, personal) opinions are objectively factual on this list of positions." That's not proof. Proof is, you know, actually providing objectively proven, demonstrable, authoritative sources of data that demonstrate that your hunches are not just personal hunches, but proven facts.
By all means, PROVE that any or all of your unproven opinions are actually objectively factual and proven reality. I love reality and proven stuff. You merely stating that you've proven stuff is not, in itself, proof. It's literally just another unsubstantiated claim that is almost certainly, demonstrably false and unfactual.
But since you're not talking about the topic here, if you want to actually provide proof for your opinions, do it on your blog. I guarantee you that IF you ever provide objectively proven data that demonstrates authoritatively that your opinions and personal hunches are objectively proven facts
(on the "inerrancy" of the Bible;
on a universe that's 6,000 years old;
on a literal and historic "Adam and Eve";
on the notion that it's not healthy or good for certain people to marry and commit to a shared relationship;
on the reality of hell and that a loving "god" wants/will punish most of humanity with an eternity of torture/torment for the "sin" of being imperfect humans;
etc)
IF and when you prove ANY of that objectively, I can guarantee that I will post it on my blog with an apology for ever doubting you. I want data and facts and truth and if it comes from you, that doesn't matter to me.
IF you can objectively prove it.
But you literally, demonstrably can't. You never have and you never will because you can't because you have no objective proof for your opinions on these topics. IF that proof was out there, anywhere, then anyone could google it and it would be kind of world-changing HUGE news. That it doesn't exist is just the reality of it all.
Now move on. Or, better yet, admit you actually can't prove any of your opinions on those personal opinions and apologize for being rude and vulgar and arrogant in your regular attacks on folks like me. Be a better man, Marshal.
I don't know how much I can emphasize this, Marshal:
1. IF you have objectively proven data that shows the world is 6,000 years ago, that SHOULD be all over the internet. Just point to ONE place that objectively proves this unproven claim OR admit that it's not (of course) objectively proven.
You won't because you can't.
2. IF you have objectively proven data that shows two gay guys, two lesbian women... whoever, should NOT be married because it is objectively "bad" or objectively irrational, that should be all over the internet. Just point to ONE place that objectively proves this unproven claim OR admit that it's not (of course) objectively proven.
You won't because you can't.
3. IF you have objectively proven data that shows that there is a Creator God and that this "god" thinks that humanity is evil and not ONLY "evil," but evil to such a degree that the only reasonable punishment for their "evil sin" is an eternity of torture/torment in a place called "hell," that should be all over the internet. Just point to ONE place that objectively proves his unproven claim OR admit that it's not (of course) objectively proven.
You won't because you can't.
And on like that. These are huge, earth-shattering claims you're making. IF these were an objective fact, they would be out there on the internet someplace because of course they would.
The reality that none of these claims you're talking about. The very reality that there's no place on the internet (or libraries or books) ANYWHERE offering this "objectively proven" opinion is, itself, proof that it doesn't exist. At the very least, it's proof that no one has ever proven them objectively.
Think about it. Why WOULDN'T this kind of world-changing information be out there somewhere?? It's a reasonable and respectable question that reasonable adults should be able to answer.
The very absence of any objective, authoritative proof of your claims is something that should give you pause before you repeat them again.
Again, as a point of reality, I am interested in objectively proven data. IF you have it somewhere, I would of course repeat it on my blog. But you don't even try to cite a source for these incredible claims, do you?
Think about it: Why don't you even try?
Don't tell me you've done so in the past. IF the data was out there then, it's still out there. Just post a link to it for ANY of your unproven (and, frankly, irrational) claims.
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