tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post8063891695487498213..comments2024-03-28T00:32:20.743-07:00Comments on Through These Woods: What Have You Dismantled Today?Dan Trabuehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-20402789383346623252013-08-01T07:39:40.864-07:002013-08-01T07:39:40.864-07:00Indeed, infirmity did and too often does result in...Indeed, infirmity did and too often does result in social stigma, but the reality of Jesus' day doesn't center on that belief alone. People also really did hold the belief that only God can forgive sins.<br /><br />Mark doesn't record that the Pharisees only appeared to be concerned about God's exclusive authority to forgive sins while they were really concerned about their own power: he wrote that they were "questioning in their hearts" how Jesus can claim to forgive sins.<br /><br />And Mark doesn't record that Jesus saw through their mock outrage: he wrote that Jesus actually answered their objection to His claim to forgive sins.<br /><br />"...for those familiar with the background and context of this story, they might reasonably expect that the people who heard these stories then would know clearly that Jesus was 'attacking' the Purity Codes of the day."<br /><br />Yeah, right, and "turn the other cheek" was a subtle argument for non-violent direct action, never mind that the Sermon on the Mount focused on such apolitical topics as lust, anger, prayer, and worry -- and never mind that Jesus urged us to be more righteous than the Pharisess, not more effective than the Zealots.<br /><br />There are quite clever reconstructions of individual passages of Scripture that make Jesus of Nazareth look like a first-century Che Guevara, but they do great damage to the plain meaning of the text.Bubbanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-88556550131398666382013-07-31T12:36:10.834-07:002013-07-31T12:36:10.834-07:00Indeed, Bubba, the biblical text itself does not g...Indeed, Bubba, the biblical text itself does not go into the Purity Code and the notion of Clean and Unclean, but for those familiar with the background and context of this story, they might reasonably expect that the people who heard these stories then would know clearly that Jesus was "attacking" the Purity Codes of the day.<br /><br />I imagine you're familiar with it, but if not, you can read more <a href="https://www3.nd.edu/~jneyrey1/purity.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> or elsewhere.<br /><br />So, when you say...<br /><br /><i>The paralytic was carried by friends... But in the [sermon] excerpt we're told that he was an outcast.</i><br /><br />Those who were diseased and disabled were considered "unclean" by the Purity Codes and would have been outcast and stigmatized, at least in some circles, at least, that's my understanding.<br /><br />Do you have a different understanding and, if so, based on what?<br /><br />And you say...<br /><br /><i>Christ here makes quite explicit the reason for His actions, to demonstrate His unique authority to forgive sins, but the excerpt seems to treat His actions as an example of a kind of perpetual political revolution.</i><br /><br />Again, I think it is reasonable to consider that people of the day would have recognized Jesus' words as pretty revolutionary in regards to the political structures of the Jewish sub-state within Rome. It seems to me that if we divorce Jesus' words from the reality of his day, we get a rather diminished Jesus.<br /><br />I think that addresses your points. Do you think that those who were "outside" of Clean in the Purity Codes of the day were not stigmatized and ostracized? If so, what do you base that on?Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-26464667502248184382013-07-31T09:33:36.398-07:002013-07-31T09:33:36.398-07:00I thought as much -- and all three synoptic accoun...I thought as much -- and all three synoptic accounts contain the same details I'll mention below -- but I appreciate the confirmation.<br /><br />I won't belabor the point, and I'm certainly not looking for a protracted argument, but I find the excerpt of this sermon to contain an implausible interpretation of the passage.<br /><br />The paralytic was carried by friends who brought him to the crowded house, climbed to the top of the building, removed part of the roof, and lowered him down in order to bring him near to Christ. But in the excerpt we're told that he was an outcast.<br /><br />Christ claimed to forgive the man's sins, which would restore the man's relationship with God, but the excerpt focuses entirely on his relationship with other people, even transforming Christ's remarkable claim of forgiveness to a lesser claim of mere social restoration.<br /><br />And Christ here makes quite explicit the reason for His actions, to demonstrate His unique authority to forgive sins, but the excerpt seems to treat His actions as an example of a kind of perpetual political revolution.<br /><br />The excerpt shows such a commitment to the politics of the left that it ignores the plain meaning of the text.<br /><br />"What have you dismantled lately?"<br /><br />I think we should follow the example of the paralytic's friends, who dismantled part of an otherwise useful roof to reach Jesus Christ. We should seek Him because He has the authority to forgive sins.Bubbanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-80525298641796386122013-07-24T11:50:24.693-07:002013-07-24T11:50:24.693-07:00The story of the paralyzed man is also found in Lu...The story of the paralyzed man is also found in Luke 5 and possibly Matthew 9, but yes, our pastor read from Mark 2.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-9209187558398736082013-07-24T10:34:55.149-07:002013-07-24T10:34:55.149-07:00Am I right that the scripture reading was Mark 2:1...Am I right that the scripture reading was Mark 2:1-12?Bubbanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-59942948337895468232013-07-23T05:01:13.328-07:002013-07-23T05:01:13.328-07:00I attended a stewardship event on Saturday that fe...I attended a stewardship event on Saturday that featured Michael Slaughter, lead pastor of Ginghamsburg UMC outside Dayton, OH. One of the things I learned in listening to his description of the many outreach ministries they do is that at least one UM pastor understands what "church" could be in the same way I do: they don't just feed the poor and run a thrift store They have an entire warehouse filled with nothing but furniture that is given to people in need. They have books and school supplies year-round for those in need. They have a group of mechanics who work on cars for those who need it but can't afford it.<br /><br />They offer breakfast before each service to everyone. They have mission stations in South Sudan, helping people get clean water. They've committed to giving $1 million to the UM "Imagine No Malaria" campaign. Starting with a membership of about 25 and a budget under $30,000 thirty years ago, Slaughter has shown us what church can be when it is dedicated to the Great Commission.<br /><br />And that it is, to use St. Paul's phrase, a more perfect way - the way of love.Geoffrey Kruse-Saffordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242660591954094499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-34196678964096818222013-07-22T18:56:19.556-07:002013-07-22T18:56:19.556-07:00"When you look around, what is it that you se...<i>"When you look around, what is it that you see that needs to be dismantled?"</i><br /><br />Your goofy ideas regarding Scripture and money.Marshal Arthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01054268632726520871noreply@blogger.com