tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post4601985060324638298..comments2024-03-28T00:32:20.743-07:00Comments on Through These Woods: ...More Like Guidelines...Dan Trabuehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-52000335863716180432011-12-07T08:07:00.401-08:002011-12-07T08:07:00.401-08:00Bubba...Would the general prohibition of taking li...Bubba...<br><br><i>Would the general prohibition of taking life be a lowercase "rule" or guideline that can be broken in order to hold fast to "the RULE of Grace, of Love, of Mercy and Justice"? </i><br><br>I'm not sure what you're asking. The rule against shedding innocent blood IS a Rule of Grace, Love, Mercy and Justice. Wouldn't you say?<br><br>As to your comments about Tamar, fair enough, the act is not specifically praised. And yet, her motivation WAS justice, she was seeking a moral Good. Thus, "The Rule" at least SEEMS TO have overridden "the rule." (ie, the Justice and Love of her act appears to have overridden the sinful nature of the act.)<br><br>Beyond that, not only is Tamar specifically listed in Jesus' ancestry in Matthew, so is Rahab, who was a "common whore." And she was praised at least twice in the New Testament, in addition to being a woman listed in Jesus' genealogy.<br><br>My point would be that the "sex sins" found in the Bible are not as rigid as we moderns tend to think, or at least the argument could be made and motivation has a lot to do with what is and isn't wrong, when we measure things by grace, as opposed to rigid rule-keeping.Dan Trabuehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-77880828507315149682011-12-02T17:06:34.138-08:002011-12-02T17:06:34.138-08:00Yet, Paul tells us the the Law is of value to us f...Yet, Paul tells us the the Law is of value to us for the purpose of distinguishing between good and bad behaviors. I'll go with Paul over Bonhoeffer any day. <br><br>What Dan misses as well, is that neither God with "I desire mercy." or Jesus and the Pharisees, is that in neither case was the Law thrown out. Only improper understanding. As we can see in the former, God was lamenting the fact that the people thought sacrifices covered their unwillingness to really overcome their sinfulness, much as some people today think they're cool with God because they go to church. <br><br>Another example would be confession. Does God want us to confess our sins? I think He'd much prefer that we not have sins to confess. This parallels the "I want mercy." passage. But to not have sins requires that we live as He taught us to live in Scripture. That means rules. Some of us understand why some "rules" do not apply and others pretend there is confusion so that loopholes for personal desires can be exploited to serve the self over God.Marshall Arthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01054268632726520871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-78817018176552668922011-12-02T04:15:14.376-08:002011-12-02T04:15:14.376-08:00An alternative, perhaps: "The knowledge of g...An alternative, perhaps: "The knowledge of good and evil seems to be the aim of all ethical reflection. The first task of Christian ethics is to invalidate this knowledge. In launching this attack on the underlying assumptions of all other ethics, Christian ethics stands so completely alone that it becomes questionable whether there is any purpose in speaking of Christian ethics at all. . .<br><br>"Already in the possibility of the knowledge of good and evil Christian ethics discerns a falling away from the origin. Man at his origin knows only one thing: God. It is only in the unity of his knowledge of God that he knows of other men, o things, and of himself. . . . The knowledge of good and evil shows that he is no longer at one with this origin. . . .<br><br>"The knowledge of good and evil is therefore separation from God."<br><br>Dietrich Bonhoeffer, <i>Ethics</i>, pp.17-18.Geoffrey Kruse-Saffordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11242660591954094499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-74176205724127551362011-12-01T18:51:21.041-08:002011-12-01T18:51:21.041-08:00Fascinating."Yes, prostitution is not good fo...Fascinating.<br><br>"<i>Yes, prostitution is not good for the oppressed prostitute or the needy/oppressive john. That is the guideline. BUT, in the Bible, we see the story of Tamar, who USED prostitution to take a stand against Injustice and for Good, for Love, for Grace. Thus, she 'broke' the 'rule'/guideline in an effort to hold close to THE Rule - Love, Grace.</i>"<br><br>A provocative suggestion, that Tamar in Genesis 38 was in the right to have "used" prostitution. It's just as provocative -- and in the entirely opposite direction -- as a "wonderfully challenging sermon" that Dan <a href="http://paynehollow.blogspot.com/2010/07/sabbath-economics.html" rel="nofollow">excerpted</a> sometime back, in which his "dear friend" condemned Joseph's actions in Genesis 47, which he said were based on a vision that "uproots - and turns into a nightmare for others."<br><br>It makes me wonder about Genesis 22, where God commands Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and Abraham obeys, stopped at the last minute by God's own intervention.<br><br>The Bible claims that God directly commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac (Gen 22:2). Nowhere does the Bible even hint that God commanded Tamar to sell herself.<br><br>The New Testament subsequently praises Abraham for obeying God, in that great roll call of the champions of faith (Heb 11:17). Nowhere does the Bible even hint that what Tamar did was commendable: Scripture merely reports without commentary.<br><br>So.<br><br>Would the general prohibition of taking life be a lowercase "rule" or guideline that can be broken in order to hold fast to "the RULE of Grace, of Love, of Mercy and Justice"? <br><br>Or is it not enough that God directly commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and that the New Testament explicitly praises him for obeying?<br><br>I think I know Dan's answer to the question, but it'd be nice to see it written out.Bubbanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-44686282625196294242011-11-29T12:57:26.423-08:002011-11-29T12:57:26.423-08:00So as long as you don't use the Bible as a pub...So as long as you don't use the Bible as a public policy manual, this will be just fine with me.John Farrierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12071863229591899452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7923725288901074422.post-59308932807683866682011-11-29T12:45:30.870-08:002011-11-29T12:45:30.870-08:00Is this a repost from outkube.com?Is this a repost from outkube.com?Alanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16274395216929104919noreply@blogger.com